US Patriot Act

[Meter]

What are the opinions on the US Patriot Act.

http://www.ccr-ny.org/whatsnew/usa_patriot_act.asp

One of the things that bothered me was that every visitor to the US can have their finger prints taken as well as a photograph. Any US citizens originating from countries marked as high risk will have their finger prints and photograph taken as well.

[somthor]

currently its common practice in many banks to take video and pictures of you when you cash checks as well as require your thumbprint. been that way for years

i dont see the harm in doing the same in airports or even sporting events are anything else that is high risk or security

its fast and its simple and if you get blown up at least they know you were there.

id be more concerend with the growing practice of hidden survalice camera's both legal and illegal. or the passing of gun control laws

might sound like bs but if you outlaw guns only criminals will have them. trust me bad guys can always get the goodies

[Rahne Sinclair]

When your in a country as high profile as ours, or so open to attacks, you have to take what measures you can to protect the innocents from outside trouble.

I think donating your fingerprints when entering our country is a little inconvenience for being here.

People from anywhere can take advantage of our courtesies because we are so free. It's almost a detriment.

[Stoffer]

I think its sad we are at a point where its necessary to take such measures. Its sad that open countries in the western world have to become more and more closed because some people use our openness against us =(
(PS, guns SHOULD be outlawed)

[Lovaelihn]

Originally posted by stofferr
I think its sad we are at a point where its necessary to take such measures... (PS, guns SHOULD be outlawed)

That seems like a contradiction, but in any case...

Please... tell me why we should give up the freedom to defend ourselves?

:confused:

Wanna throw away free speach and press, too?

As for fingerprinting, I think there could be better ways to go about it, but I can definately see the point in gathering more information about people that come into our borders. It doesn't seem to go against human rights or anything like that for us to know more about someone if they come to our country. Some would feel that the government having more information about us, and at times I am forced to agree. However, something as minor as the layout of skin on a finger is up there with having a photo of the person.. it's not like you are finding out what their most secret of sexual desires are or anything.

Besides, people have been putting photos on passports, visas, etc for years now.

Perhaps the comparison is off, but fingerprints just basically seem the same as a photo, if ya ask me.

:p

[oNCe]

one of the things they kinda ninja'd in was that with this act they basically revoke the 4th amendment.. search and siezure..

police use to not be allowed to come into your house/property unless invited/had a warrent.. now they can go in.. search whatever they want.. and then say it was because they had reason to believe illegal acts involved with terrorism were being done..

(oh btw if they find anything else illegal along the way they are allowed to bust you for that)

living in one of the biggest cities in the world.. with a shitload of bad cops.. it just gets frustrating having privacy rights taken away..

[Fizzletwit]

OMG oNCe where you live bro?

<---- Paterson

Thx

Fizzletwit Shrubcuddler

[somthor]

that wont last long if they enter and dont find the materials they were looking for as spicificly stated they wont be able to use them in a latter trial unless they get a court order to allow it

but for a long time a policeman has had the right with resonable cause to search your vehcile

most police will ask you for your drivers licence and ins and regestration and if they can search your car which you can refuse

but if you refuse they tend to wonder why

if the police are going to arrest you they then have the legal right to search you and your vechicle

[Meter]

The only reason the US government does these things is control. Its the wet dream of every government. It does not make the United States a safer place to live in, if people want to get in they will get in either way, it just gives the government more control over you.
The US government is using the fear of the american people to gain more and more control of their citizens, soon enough they will know when you went to bed, had a cup of coffee or had sex for the last time. Why is this bad? Because all this information will be abused sooner or later.
It is the islamic people now, soon it will be every black american, postal worker and middle aged white male or any other group they decide is dangerous.
Another good example of this avid pursuit for control are the US cryoptography laws, this has been going on for years and has a lot of disturbing examples.

[Celoco]

Complete agreement meter, glad to see not everyone is an ignorant sheep. Sometimes when topics come up like this in real life (sparked by the media bullshit) I try to tell people what is going on out there, but its no fucking use. Problem is as long as jack can have a beer when he gets home from work, watch TV, and tap his wife twice a week -- He could give 2 shits less he is becoming a government pawn.

I defintely see America turning into a more refined form of the Nazi regime. Its only going to get worse if people dont snap out of their consumerism daze.

[Arri Skywolf]

I like how all these conspiracy theorists talk big shit about the US Government but they don't mind benefitting from other government policies. (Well, besides Meter who doesn't live in the US, however I'm sure his country isn't completely free of US aid or some other policy)

Face it, the United States is the patriarch country in the world. People don't like that for whatever reason. We get attacked by terrorists because of it (and because of alot of our foreign policies.). I'm not saying the US is completely right, or completely wrong, however, anyone that commits a terrorist act against another human being is completely and utterly in the wrong.

Yes, it is sad that we have to take such security measures that are now being performed, but if it keeps me just a little bit safer, then I don't mind if my third cousin's uncle's father from africa gets his fingerprints and a photo taken upon entering the country.

As far as the gun control issue, it's been beaten to death, and I know how you morons like to argue about it. Just let it be. (Even though I know that's not going to happen)

Oh, and Lova, you can't kill people with freedom of speech.

[Celoco]

Freedom of speech is on its last leg -- wont exist in the future on this course.

How about machines listening in on America's phone calls for keywords like drugs, terrorism, allah, etc... I cant even talk on my fucking phone to my friends without worrying about the feds showing up at my house for interrogation. little fucking privacy needed here.

How about the FBI trying to get interrogation laws deregulated so they can use near any method (including any level of violence) to extract information from detainees. gestapo style.

Theres other examples but it serves no purpose to list them all, you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

[Arri Skywolf]

That's funny because I talk on my phone normally every day about any usbject I want with my friends. The FBI or any other sort of law enforcement has never shown up on my door step. I've said the words bomb, fire, terrorist, allah, airplane, and random names of drugs repeatedly in multiple phone conversations. People get real uppity when they're doing something wrong and they think they might get caught.

[Celoco]

The systems arent in place in every state yet. It will take a few years before the phone system is totally regulated.

I dont give a fuck if Arri isnt getting arrested, its the concept of this bullshit that should bother you.

[Arri Skywolf]

YES! I AM OUTRAGED BECAUSE MORONS THAT ARE SELLING ILLEGAL DRUGS OR GUNS ARE GOING TO BE ARRESTED FOR IT! I AM ALSO OUTRAGED THAT MORONS/TERRORIST ASSHOLES ARE GETTING FINGERPRINTED UPON ENTRANCE TO THIS COUNTRY SO THAT IT KEEPS US SAFE! I AM SO FUCKING PISSED OFF, HOLY GOD! THE LORD ALLMIGHTY WILL STRIKE DOWN UPON THEEE WITH HELLFIRE AND BRIMSTONE! YOU EVIL GOVERNMENT BASTARDS!!!!

[Celoco]

The power needs to be given back to the states. The federal government shouldnt be allowed to regulate my personal life. If states had power you wouldnt have assholes in congress telling you whats good for you. Some states would be for the people, some wouldnt.

Communication was a factor that gave the federal government so much power. I know this is really reaching out there, but if there wasnt any media, advanced telephone system, etc. Then the states would have remained in power because the federal government would have had a harsh time relaying their new laws and fresh bullshit to the states. The federal government wouldnt have been able to even organize itself into the massive regulation giant that it is today.

[Arri Skywolf]

So let's go back to the days of muskets! People are corrupt assholes out for themselves whether they work for the Federal Government or whether they work for the state government, it doesn't matter. They're always looking out for #1.. them.

[Celoco]

I think your overlooking the fact that the big guys up in congress are isolated from everyday life. They arent the common man, but still they create laws for them. Something wrong with that. And personally they could give a shit less about the common man as you said Arri.

If power was broken down to the states, then it would be easier for the common man to rally and protest bills. They could communicate to the lawmakers of the state what the people want. And the president of the state would listen because thats how the fucker stays in office, by getting the popularity.

[Celoco]

Anyway shit is only going to get deeper in America. Move to the UK unless the green party gets into office.

[Lovaelihn]

Well, I fail to see how a fingerprint matters any more than a photo. They are both simply physical identifiers, nothing else when gathered for these purposes. Go ahead and include, height, weight, color, etc... Same idea to me.

If you are against the U.S. getting a fingerprint of you ( assuming you don't live here ) but you have a photo of yourself in whatever you need to get in the borders, I say you're not paying much attention. :D

Arri- We can go back and forth on whether guns are good or bad to have. One thing we can't go back and forth on are our rights as American citizens. I don't own a gun. I'd be livid if for some reason I couldn't.

Yeah...I'd be pretty pissed off if my basic rights were being challenged. I feel that even certain forms of our censorhip and self-righteous "I know what's best for you" kind of culturizing is sickening.

We can all have our own views, and these views are in place because of our rights. Don't like guns? Don't own them.

[Arri Skywolf]

Do you not understand that the so-called representative that we elect for the house and the senate are who is making these laws? Do you not understand that the people tell those representatives what they want to happen? Do you realize that the same representatives that get elected to fly to D.C. and tell them what the people want are the same ones that would be elected anyways and still be making the laws for the states? We are the most prosperous country in the world and we did not get to be that way by the states isolating themselves from the rest of the country. What you're talking about would effectively make each state it's own small nation, and then who would defend us then? The Federal Government? How could they? They don't get taxes paid to them anymore, they can't afford to keep and raise an army, and we all know that a single state could not defend itself from outside aggressors, let alone other states that decided to go to war against the smaller states or in your case, countries.

[Celoco]

In the cannabis studies that caused the scheduling of THC, they took monkeys and threw them in a room. Then they filled the room with the smoke which was enough to kill a city block. Result: Monkeys died of suffocation from lack of oxygen. Report stated monkeys died of excessive THC intake. a few years later the reports were destroyed and were considered bullshit by the government. But guess what? Even though its healthier than tipping back a few cold ones, Its still illegal.

The controlling factor makes me sick when im too tired to get pissed.

[Celoco]

Arri the states would raise their own militias and fight unified under the federal government. The federal gov would exist, just for defense of the nation.

I understand the reps we elect by state go to DC and tell them what we supposedly want. But they are more like political puppets.

[Arri Skywolf]

Alcohol should also be illegal. Any substance that efects the thought processes in the brain in a negative manner (not talking about prozac etc, things people need to solve chemical imbalances) should be illegal. Sure I believe people shoul dbe able to do what they want as long as it doesn't effect other people in a negative manner, however, face it: people drive drunk/high and they kill people. Your dumbass just wants to get high and not have to face up to the pressures of everyday life that all of us go through. I don't want to risk my daughter getting killed while walking down the street just so your dumbass can drown his sorrows with a bottle of J.D. and run to the store to get more, or so you can shoot up in your living room and not realize wtf you've done when you just killed your neighbor's 4 year old sister while she was running through the sprinkler in her front yard.

[Trayia]

Fingerprints can provide ID if someone decides to blow himself up in a shopping mall (suicide bomber), of course if you find a finger or two. I hardly doubt a photograph would be comparable to a mangled face.

[Lovaelihn]

Originally posted by Arri Skywolf
Any substance that efects the thought processes in the brain in a negative manner (not talking about prozac etc, things people need to solve chemical imbalances) should be illegal.

That is completely ubsurd.

Who the hell are you to tell me what I can or cannot do?

Why do you think your thoughts are more than mine?

If you are going to stop people from affecting their own bodies that way, you might as well outlaw depression, retardation, etc...

Have every person bred in a facility so that we all feel and act the same way? I know that I am going deep with this one, but still.

Stop trying to take things away from us, when we have so very little left. Do you really want a government full of greedy politicians having more power? Power to throw you in jail for thinking about killing your wife?

See, I have little faith in humans, too... I just think that even if we're idiots, we still should have certain rights.

[Celoco]

Wont get into that arguement, im hypogylcemic and I havent had my lunch break yet.

[Lovaelihn]

Originally posted by Trayia
Fingerprints can provide ID if someone decides to blow himself up in a shopping mall (suicide bomber), of course if you find a finger or two. I hardly doubt a photograph would be comparable to a mangled face.

The comparison I was sorta going for was along the lines of "is it intrusion to ask for this"?

I say no, because it seems no more intruding than a picture. In fact, I think if you gave our government the choice between the two, they would take a picture, because it can tell you more about a person than a finger.

If the person's hands were blown off, a picture would be better, too... :p

[Arri Skywolf]

I seriously doubt a state could raise it's own militia well enough to defend itself without the help of the federal government. Also, what you said before, if all power was given to the states, there would be no federal government or if there was it would be severely weakened and taxes wouldn't be paid to it so it wouldn't be able to keep and manage a large military force.

Oh, and that green party bullshit is just that, bullshit. They do just like every other party, they tell the people what they want to hear to get votes. When they get in office, they do what they can to stay in office just like every other political organization. The country is working out fine how I see it other than some of the education in certain states and the welfare/unemployment checks that people recieve when they aren't actively seeking employment.

We don't have a dictator who pisses the entire world off or who tortures/murders/commits genocode on his own people. We don't have filth running through the streets, and we don't have 14 year olds walking through the streets with automatic weapons doing the bidding of the country's leader. We're all in quite good shape compared to the rest of the world, and yet you whiney little kids think it isn't fair that you can't get high and shoot people. If you don't like it go live in a different country. Go live in Iraq, Iran, Libya, Sudan, Congo, south africa, Rwanda, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Russia. See how much you like it there or see how good you had it in the U.S.

[Celoco]

True Ive thought the green party is feeding off of the hope of people like me. But ill keep the faith, maybe all their platform isnt bullshit.

[Arri Skywolf]

That's bullshit. Tell that to the kid that gets beaten by his drunk father, or the kid that has to listen to his father or mother yell at them everyday about how they're a piece of shit. Tell that to the kids whose parents are selling drugs, the kid whose seen his dad have a gun stuck in his face. How about the mother of the little girl who was killed by a drunk driver? How about the father whose son was paralyzed for life by someone that decided to smoke a bowl, or shoot up? Would you want to be the person to tell that that it's too bad their loved one was taken from them but they should be happy that the person who did it had the freedom to be able to become high/drunk/fucked up in the first place? If you think you're in the right on that one, you are indeed a piece of shit.

[Trayia]

You're right Arri, we have it good here in US. I am so thankful I do not have to raise my kids in some country like Iraq or Afghanistan. Those countries treat their women like shit.

[Rhawn]

Picking up on some sarcasm there T....

[Lovaelihn]

Exactly.

What made this very country was the founding ideas that give us the ability to "get high and shoot people," as you put it. See, in America, I am innocent until I do something wrong. You can't stop me from going and getting drunk and playing with a gun. The only thing is, there are laws in place that force me to either pay attention and not be a complete idiot ( i.e. shooting someone or something, or generally being a dimwit ) or go to jail / get shot. Read this thread here. (http://http://www.ralloszek.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ooc&Number=18266&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) It's a long one, but most of the basic concepts there are the same.
Why would I move to another country because some idiots think they can take away my basic rights? Methinks you should reconsider who's the one who should be looking at sandy shores.


The good thing is, my viewpoint is shared by millions of Americans, and even though fascists like you are allowed to speak your mind ( basic rights, remember? ;) ), my rights are pretty much still in place.

I think I'm gonna go smoke a joint, drink a forty, and start playing with my guns now.

[Trayia]

What are you talking about Rhawn?

[Rhawn]

You forgot Rock and Roll you rebel....

[Celoco]

You made me ironically chuckle with that last bit. I know where your coming from, but the solution would be of course to increase penalties for driving drunk or under the influence of your drug of choice. Make the penalties so harsh that it will make people think twice about not driving sober etc.

[Trayia]

What the hell are you talking about?

[Lovaelihn]

No, Rhawn... Traiya was saying she likes america and the rights that being a citizen afford her.

She likes being free, and being allowed to make her own choices, for good or ill.

Isn't that right, Traiya? :p

[Arri Skywolf]

Millions of people are fuckheads like you. Answer my post above. It's apparent you wouldn't give up your right to get drunk/high and play with your gun just to save one life. Make alcohol illegal and it will be less abundant and less deaths will be caused by it. Those dickheads that get caught drinking and driving will be put behind bars for longer than the night till they dry out. They did it once, they'll do it again, so lock them up. They don't have a right to put my life in danger. As for your guns, I hope someone you love gets shot so that you can praise the ability of someone to harm your loved ones with a weapon they shouldn't have had because they can't control their urges to kill. The populace of the country has proven itself to have a lack of common sense. Let's leave it up to my neighbor next door to decide if he wants to shoot me when I walk out of my house, or not. No. I say no. I say let's not let him have the decision to shoot me at all. I can run from a knife, I can't run from a bullet.

That's all I'm going to say about the gun control issue.

[Trayia]

Lovaelihn
/nod


Yes I love the fact that I can speak my mind, and do what ever I want, as far as the law goes that is. I mean I don't break the law, I pay my taxes and I am employed. So I am happy with where I am in the world. :D

[Rhawn]

Ahh I thought you was being sarcastic, as sexually equality is still not how it should be in the USA. But does shine like gold compared to the countries she mentioned.

I was saying the rebel comment to Lova.

Ignore me.

[Lovaelihn]

Originally posted by Arri Skywolf
Millions of people are fuckheads like you.

Why thank you! That puts me in a wonderful mood in which to show you what I mean. :D

Originally posted by Arri Skywolf
It's apparent you wouldn't give up your right to get drunk/high and play with your gun just to save one life. Make alcohol illegal and it will be less abundant and less deaths will be caused by it.

Is it really apparent what I would do? You know me all that well, eh? So, by that logic, I would never give my life for another person, either, would I? Glad you know so much about my mental state. :rolleyes:

As for making alchohol illegal- look at prohibition. Are you looking for a way to kill more people and put more people in jail so we have to pay more taxes? You know what causes more deaths than alchohol? Driving. Let's make it illegal, too. Hell, let's do it just because I think so.

That's how logic works for you, right?

Originally posted by Arri Skywolf

Those dickheads that get caught drinking and driving will be put behind bars for longer than the night till they dry out. They did it once, they'll do it again, so lock them up.

You know what? I can see increasing the penalty for drunk driving. I can understand that and accept it if we, as a people, vote that it should be in place. Many people die from alchohol related accidents each year, and perhaps the 2nd or 3rd DUI should come with serious jail time whether someone was hurt or not. But hey... these are only suggestions. Allow me to remind you again that we live in a country where we all get to have a say in what happens.

Originally posted by Arri Skywolf
They don't have a right to put my life in danger.

... and you don't have the right to stop me from having a gun.

That's where our basic law system stems from. They can own the gun, but the second they do something illegal such as put your life in danger, they have basically surrendered their right to bear that arm right now. How this is proved is in a court of law, beyond a shadow of a doubt ( for criminal cases, at least ). The person gets there via getting arrested and having their rights truncated for a bit until 'the people' choose what to do with them.

Originally posted by Arri Skywolf
I hope someone you love gets shot so that you can praise the ability of someone to harm your loved ones with a weapon they shouldn't have had because they can't control their urges to kill.

Well, thanks for hoping that someone I love gets shot, first off. I guess I should expect no less from you.

Who's to say a miscalculation of a doctor's prescription of prozac pushed the person over the edge? Should we go holding the doctor responsible only? What about the drug? Maybe we can blame the almight god in the sky...

Or maybe you should just pay attention to our structure as a country and either deal with what we were formed on, or try to change the constitution ( good luck ).

Originally posted by Arri Skywolf
I say no. I say let's not let him have the decision to shoot me at all.

First off, you're not going to be able to stop people from getting guns, drugs, alchohol, whatever.

I don't care what laws you put in, I will ( and many others as well ) find a way to smoke a joint if I want to, or own a gun if I feel the need.

I say no. I say it's not your choice to let or not let him own a gun.

Good thing my view is backed up ( basically ) by the government in which I live in. Some might say it's a system that was well thought out. Not perfect, by any means, but pretty damn good, if you ask me.

This subject has been beat to the ground several times. It's really a moot point unless you bring something new to the table.

We already heard Hitler's point of view, so you should try a new angle.

[Lovaelihn]

I didn't mention sex either, though.

It felt sorta unworthy to call on 2 of the sacred three.

:D

[Arri Skywolf]

Calling me Hitler and a facsist is only trying to get other people who dislike Hitler/fascists (I dislike them) on your side, that's all it's doing. There's no point to it at all, and you're just trying to use people's emotions to get them to agree with you.

So I guess little Johnny who got shot by his best friend accidently and thinks guns are bad now is Hitler? Oh, ok, I think I understand.

[Arri Skywolf]

The thread you link to... I didn't even read the whole thing because that fuckhead Dubbya made it to where I had to scroll from left to right, which is infinitely annoying.

[Lovaelihn]

No, but little jhonny that got shot on accident because someone's parents made a stupid mistake, then goes on to try and convince people that their very rights should be taken away is growing up to be hitler.

Fascism is fascism, I don't care how pretty the packaging is.

Bottom line here for me is this :

You cannot, and will not take a away my rights.

Is it that hard to understand?:D

[Arri Skywolf]

I'm also ending this debate since it will go on forever like every other discussion about politics/guns on this board, and then Darwoth will jump in and it will go on for infinity plus 1!

[Lovaelihn]

Yah... that pissed me off too... lol <-- the scrolling thing

Prolly best to just let this drop, yeah.

It's one of those "etc etc etc" parties.

It's all been hashed before.

[Arri Skywolf]

Also as far as that thread is concerned, the part I read (about censoring Scurry) you (in my opinion) were completely correct.

[Vallidus]

Arri, Imt aking off my friend hat here for a second :P

But by your logic, perhaps we should outlaw all form of automobile use, how many people die a day in car wrecks, trainwrecks, plane crashes etc that arent caused by booze or drugs? I guarentee a LOT more then those caused by drunks, potheads etc etc. Maybe we should ban Swimming Pools, lakes and oceans too, as to save all the people from drowning...

You asked someone, ferget who, how they couldnt ban drugs if it meant saving one life, you wanna give up flying, driving, and swimming just to save one life?

and btw weed is already illegal, may not look that way with the number of people that puff these days but its true!

Maybe we could put a super-ban on it, so we know theyre serious~

[Lovaelihn]

Thank you - I appreciate it.

Only reason why I linked it was because it seems to be about the same basic thing, just this has more of a 'real life equation' to base off of.

I would also link that super-duper discussion about gun control ( which one, you ask? Any! ), but I figure everyone here has read it, and I would be the LAST person to pull that horse out for another whoopin'.



:p

[Lovaelihn]

Originally posted by Vallidus

Maybe we could put a super-ban on it, so we know theyre serious~

That quote made me laugh.

"What, you gonna arrest me for one joint, cop?"

"No.. you are being super-duper arrested, sir."

"... What?!"

[Vallidus]

haha, you seen that Super Troopers movie or the preview?

"PULL OVER!!!" says cop from car

"IM ALREADY PULLED OVER!!" "druggie#1

"Pull over farther man!!" druggie #2

"PULL OVER!!" Cop

"I cant pull over any farther!!!" druggie#1

"HE CANT PULL OVER ANY FARTHER!!!!!" druggie#2

[Lovaelihn]

lol

I didn't see the movie, but I saw the previews... made me laugh my ass off.

:D

[Rhawn]

I'M FREAKIN OUT MAN~~~~~~~~~~`

[Vallidus]

I heard themovie is pretty funny, but not as good as the previews lead ya to believe, I will prolly check it out anyway

Its about Vermont State Troopers and filmed in Vermont, an Im from vermont, thus.... umm, nuthin

[somthor]

and you know that aint all bad

[Celoco]

haha a super-ban. thats some funny shit

[Arri Skywolf]

Originally posted by Vallidus
Arri, Imt aking off my friend hat here for a second :P

But by your logic, perhaps we should outlaw all form of automobile use,

Are automobiles made for the specific intention or use of taking a life? No. Guns are made specifically to kill people, and that's what they're used for. Automobiles are used for transportation, sure there are accidents but you can't possibly believe that automobiles should be banned, and neither do I, and don't tell me what my logic is or isn't. When you pull out a gun your intention is to kill someone, when you use a a car or other mode of transportation, are you trying to kill someone? Not usually, and probably not at all. Oh and your argument is completely unoriginal, and has been used over and over, and refuted, over and over.

However, I can't say I wouldn't laugh if we all just rode around in rickshaws ;p

how many people die a day in car wrecks, trainwrecks, plane crashes etc that arent caused by booze or drugs? I guarentee a LOT more then those caused by drunks, potheads etc etc.

An estimated 513,000 people are injured in alcohol-related crashes each year, an average of 59 people per hour or approximately one person every minute. (NHTSA, 2002)

About three in every ten Americans will be involved in an alcohol-related crash at some time in their lives. (NHTSA, 2000)

Alcohol is closely linked with violence. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, many more violent crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol than all other drugs. (Drug Strategies, 1999)

Alcohol consumption is a major cause of motor vehicle crashes and injury. Historically, about half of all motor vehicle fatalities occur in crashes in which a driver or non-occupant has consumed a measurable level of alcohol prior to the crash. (NHTSA, 2002)

Drunk driving is the nation's most frequently committed violent crime. (MADD, 2000)

There is evidence that heavier drinkers prefer to drink at bars and other person's homes, and at multiple locations requiring longer driver distances. Young drivers have been found to prefer drinking at private parties, while older, more educated drivers prefer bars and taverns. (NHTSA, 2001)



Maybe we should ban Swimming Pools, lakes and oceans too, as to save all the people from drowning...

You're just trying to patronize me with statements that you know are completely off the wall. Not only that, but didn't you used to be a bartender and are you an avid smoker of marijuana?

You asked someone, ferget who, how they couldnt ban drugs if it meant saving one life, you wanna give up flying, driving, and swimming just to save one life?

Sure. Let's get rid of all modes of transportation, then when your mother or grandmother has a heart attack, you can wheel her to the hospital, that's 10 miles down the road, in a rickshaw, or your radio flyer wagon.

Or, you can actually take a serious look and ask yourself why you're so fucked up that you need alcohol or drugs as a crutch to get through life. You can also realize that alcohol and illegal drugs do no good for people in anyway, shape, or form other than to alter their percieved reality and make them think they can do something they can't, and also to inhibit the decision making processes of the mind.

What good do guns do? Let you protect yourself from the robber that has a gun? Guess what, you wouldn't need to protect yourself of the availability of those weapons wasn't there in the first place.

and btw weed is already illegal, may not look that way with the number of people that puff these days but its true!

Maybe we could put a super-ban on it, so we know theyre serious~

There needs to be stiffer penalties.

[Darwoth]

i am against the patriot act, there are a lot of other clauses contained in it that strip other civil liberties away from americans.

the government is passing more and more illegal unconstitutional laws under the guise of "homeland secuirty" when they refuse to do anything to actually make an effective hedge against terrorists.......

the mexican border is still wide open for example and all anyone has got to do is walk right across, as a matter of fact over 200 border patrol agents quit for better paying jobs with less frustration from the politicians who wont let them do their jobs and that number will continue to grow.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/3762176.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp



airport security? LOL here are some links to how effective airport secuirty is......


http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/08/13/screener.arrest/index.html

http://www.wisinfo.com/journal/spjlocal/275606260847049.shtml

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2002/8/6/92628

http://ctnow.com/news/local/hc-bradtexan0803.artaug03.story?coll=hc%2Dheadlines%2 Dlocal

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,56750,00.html

and thats not including the example of the 86 year old world war 2 hero who was arrested because he had a medal of honor in his luggage.

nor the afghanistan war veteran who needed to carry a small pair of pliers with him onto the plane as his mouth was broken and wired shut, and if you vomit with your mouth wired shut you choke to death hence youve got to carry them with you everywhere, of course this was not allowed by the "airport security" personnel despite the fact said individual broke his jaw by being shot in the mouth by a taliban sniper during a firefight with the terrorists they were basically accusing him of being.

meanwhile however ragheads get to walk on through without so much a cursory glance for fear of "offending" anyone.

if we were serious about portecting our borders we would finally put a stop the tidal waves of illegals who flood across our mexican border and we would disallow flights from middle eastern countries and would make screening of arabs mandatory since every single plane highjacking since there have been planes were done by ragheads.



furthermore any of you know what TIPS is?

its a program designed to have over half the american population be volunteer "spies", yes thats right folks the cable repair man coming to fix your Tv and you have a gun magazine laying about? well uh oh he might consider that suspicious and report you to the feds where you will now be placed on a list of potential terrorists. you going to the grocery store and buying a few pounds of sugar, maybe some powdered citric acid and a few other common things used in cakes and pies etc? well some neer do well cashier might see that and report you for purchasing "bomb making matrerials". whats that? its christmas time and you shop for most of your gifts over the internet? well sorry to say the UPS driver may find that delivering lots of heavy packages to your house in a short period of time suspicious and now your a terrorist.


anyone know what carnivore is?

well its part of a computer system that is designed to scan millions of websites read your emails etc and record everything in/on them into a databse for big brother to snopp into your personal lives later.

blatant violation of the 4th ammendment.


anyone know what posse-comitatus is?

it is the law that makes it illegal to use american military against american citizens. well is trying (if he hasnt already done sone) to get that law repealed, yes thats right a large step closer to military rodblocks and martial law.

think it cant happen here? think again it is happening, and most of you dont even realize it.

and this shit is just the tip of the iceberg, theres a LOT more going on, each one is a little nibble at your liberty and with each nibble the hole gets bigger.






as for gun control etc im going to try to avoid debating with morons in this thread, there is only so many times you can pound facts and reality into someones hollow skull before you have to move on and let them bask in their own rose colored glasses stupidity. if anyone wants to debate gun control start a new thread and ill be happy to once again oblige.

i never have figured out why it is people from halfway around the globe (stoffer?) think anyone cares what negative things theyve got to say about the american constitution and our rights.

[Trayia]

The whole airport issue with screening people without racially profiling is pretty stupid. When's the last time you heard of a an 80 year old white grandmother highjacking a plane?

[Celoco]

Thanks darwoth you elaborated a lot of what I didnt have the energy or heart to do.

Even though it is too bad you arent addressing this nation of dumbfucks, just a few ignorant gamers.

I consider ignoramuses as sub-human, and I treat them as such. Ignorant mouths spark violence among the vigilant. That is why in real life i steer clear of any political arguement for fear of me hurting someone.

[Noobe]

Noone has ever killed anyone driving while high :(

[Lovaelihn]

To be honest, I didn't read a damn thing about the patriot act except what was said about it in this thread.

If all they would be doing is taking fingerprints, I am all for it.

If there are other little "added protection" clauses, I'd have to read through it.

Not now, though. :D

Bleh... anything I can really say in response has already been said by someone.

[Celoco]

100% true, studies show you drive more cautious while high.

Also 1 glass of wine impairs you up to 4X more than 1 joint.
Also smoking after drinking will help you get home because it puts you into a more cautious mode instead of the fake confidance you get from the alcohol.

[Illusive]

Automobiles are used for transportation, sure there are accidents but you can't possibly believe that automobiles should be banned, and neither do I, and don't tell me what my logic is or isn't. When you pull out a gun your intention is to kill someone, when you use a a car or other mode of transportation, are you trying to kill someone? Not usually, and probably not at all.

Guns don't kill, the people pulling the trigger do. And no, I've never pulled out any of my guns with the intention of killing or hurting anyone.

I like to go out into bear country to camp, hike, and fish. Always bring a gun with me, luckily never had to use it. Lets say I had a wife and 2 kids, and guns were illegal. Grizzly runs after my 7 year old daughter. What a wonderful feeling that must be; knowing your little girl is going to die painfully and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. And my other child, wife, or myself is next. Fuck that shit. I know its not common, but it happens in state parks and family campgrounds.

And about making alcohol illegal... what exactly do you think would happen? Sure, there'd be less drunk driving deaths, maybe less alcoholism + family problems. Then there's the tens of thousands of people who'd be out of jobs and the new very popular drug trade which is going to make the crime rate skyrocket like it did during prohibition.

Had more to post but I gotta go to the bank before it closes.

[Stoffer]

That seems like a contradiction, but in any case...
You misunderstand. those 2 things were in no way connected. Im talking about people comming from other countries taking advantage of open countries laws.
The comment about gunlaws had nothing to do with that. Imo guns belong to police, airfoce, army, navy and hunters. i see no reason for a private person to own a gun, serious. Ive heard people say "well, cars kill people 2, would you outlaw them?" The think im trying to say is, its not about statisticss, everything is essentially dangerous. Its the purpose. take my example about the car.
Car, purpose? transportation.
Gun, purpose? Kill or injure. There is no other purpose really.
Have it for protection? protection from other people carrying guns?. Outlawing guns would remove the purpose of owning a gun for protection if no one had them (there are of course people who are going to have them, but if you bring it to such a low level it would be irellevant to own a gun)

[Darwoth]

are you an american stoffer?

[Arri Skywolf]

Are you a murderer and a rapist, Darwoth?

[Darwoth]

no, as a matter of fact one of the reasons i routinely pack heat is to protect myself and loved ones from said segment of society.

why is it morons like yourself wish to deny americans this right of self preservation?

[Daefuin]

HEH.

Gotta agree with Darwoth on this.

daefuin

[Daefuin]

Also..

People are saying well if they just outlaw guns alltogether nobody would have them...

That is not even close to what would actually happen. The people are gonna go shoot someone are still gonna do that. Outlawing guns isn't gonna stop them.

Does it matter if you shoot someone with an illegal gun, or a legal gun? no, not really.

Daefuin

[Arri Skywolf]

Hi Darapist, just stfu, k? You go ahead and pack heat, then when your wife decides your dick is too small and she fucks someone else and you kill that someone else, you can rot your ass in prison for the rest of your life. k? :)


Oh, and outlawing guns would keep them out of the hands of people who maybe law abiding citizen, but people have shown they can't control their 'murderous rages.' So it would keep that tool of violence out of their hands.

[Arri Skywolf]

I like how you self proclaimed proponents of the 'bill of rights' hold in high esteem the very tool that would allow someone to takes those very rights from you. The tool that takes peoples' foremost right, the right that is held high above all others, the right to life.

[Darwoth]

id like everyone to please look at arris posts and realize this is the mindset of the retards that would like to take away your rights.

you see instead of trying to support is faled logic with supporting ideas he knows he cant win after reading the facts and common sense i (and many others) put on the table in past threads and knows he cant win the argument, so he now resorts to petty insults about my having a gun must mean im a rapist with a small dick who kills my nonexistant wifes extra marital boyfriends.

perhaps when you grow out of puberty youll have something to say :rolleyes:

i am now going to start a new thread on gun control for those inclined to participate so as not to sidetrack from the original point of this one.

[Arri Skywolf]

I'm 10, I haven't started puberty yet. I'm still infinitely more intelligent than you :) Darapist.

[Darwoth]

well if your only 10 than i cant really blame you for being an idiot making an ass of yourself on a weekend on dads computer arri child molestor.

[Arri Skywolf]

I like how you all would like the option to be able to murder someone easier. It shows me who the real scumbags are. Yes I'm throwing out insults, it's fun :) However, your puberty insult was nice. Pot meet kettle.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for common sense? Bullshit. It's your opinion, not common sense, moron.

[Arri Skywolf]

yes, I'm a 10 year old child molester, dumbass. Oh and this isn't my daddy's computer. I bought it with the money I recieved for selling my body. You would be surprised the amount of people that go for someone without any body hair.

[Darwoth]

self defense is not murder, this is the last i will respond to gun control arguments in this thread, if you wish to have this discussion with me it will be in the other thread as im not going to fuck this one up.

[Darwoth]

1> i dont believe you are 10.

2> i do believe your either just entering or not yet reached puberty.

3> the fact that you dont want anyone able to defend themselves and your obsession with dicks, rapes and murder leads me to believe your a future sexual predator in the making or at the least are not mentally stable.

i can understand how you would want your potential victims unarmed.

[Arri Skywolf]

You wouldn't need to defend yourself with firearms if their availability was lessened so people *or as I call them, potential future criminals* couldn't get a hold of them.

[Arri Skywolf]

laugh. How old are you, again?

[Darwoth]

21

[Arri Skywolf]

lol, you've just entered the age where you can own a firearm, I can see why you're so adamant about that 'right' :P

[Darwoth]

actually my first firearm was a homemade zip gun that i built when i was 15 years old because my mother and stepfather were afraid of guns and would not let me own any but i enjoyed shooting so i had to improvise.

eventually however i changed their mind and at the age of 17 i had an assortment of 7 different weapons.


the legal age by the way is 18, not 21. 21 is for pistols and you are able to take posession of a pistol at 18 you just cant buy one from a ffl until your 21.

in any case, take it to the other thread if you wish to talk to me as i will be ignoring any comments of yours in this one.

[Lovaelihn]

Originally posted by stofferr

Outlawing guns would remove the purpose of owning a gun for protection if no one had them (there are of course people who are going to have them, but if you bring it to such a low level it would be irellevant to own a gun)

Do you really think that gun removal would take guns away from our everyday life?

Do you really think that making guns 'illegal' will make them be any less easy to buy?

I can buy heroin quicker and with less hassle than I could Whiskey. ( I don't do heroin, though. Never have, never will - part of my personal morals. )

Someone will always have a gun. In the very least, my government will, if not just to protect me. We should have them, too. I don't see the point in giving another person or organization the ability to protect me in a way that I cannot protect myself. Who knows... maybe I'll have to protect myself against them...

Not a conspiracy... just an honest possibility.

[Arri Skywolf]

While I may not agree with Lovaehlin on certain issues regarding gun control and mind altering substances, I do, however, agree with him concerning the right we excercise here everyday. Freedom of speech. We all have the right to argue according to our beliefs, and I'm glad we do so.

[Mawwle]

Wow, I've been missing another good debate while i was away....i dont have time for a response atm, but i'll be back soon.

Some peoples idiocy never ceases to amaze me......Should we outlaw cars? they kill people...should we outlaw electricity? it kills people...Knives? screwdrivers? fireworks?swimming pools? Oh, and what about those deadly plastic bags some people use to suffocate others?

Anyway, different subject... anyone live near Tunica Mississippi? I am headed there labor day weekend for some casino fun :)

Its about 30 miles south of Memphis Tennesee


Mawwle

[Arri Skywolf]

Should we mass market nuclear warheads? Cruise missiles? Stinger single person rocket launchers? Grenades?

I can take it to extremes also, jackass. It's the intent of the thing, not the possibility of it killing someone.

[Mawwle]

Originally posted by Arri Skywolf
It's the intent of the thing, not the possibility of it killing someone.

Thank you for making my point.

[Mawwle]

Originally posted by Celoco
True Ive thought the green party is feeding off of the hope of people like me. But ill keep the faith, maybe all their platform isnt bullshit.

Celeco, you seem to be pro-freedom, which confuses the hell out of me when you are talking about supporting the green party. The green party is probably one of the MOST communistic parties out there, which means zero freedom.

Here is some of their platform....



We believe in MAJORITY RULE



Majority rule, or mob rule is a very scary thing...the mob is uninformed, uneducated and makes rash "feel good" decisions without considering what the consequences of those decisions may be.

We must take aggressive steps to restore a FAIR DISTRIBUTION OF INCOME.


Income is earned, not distributed, unless your a socialist.


We call for restoration of a federally funded entitlement program to support children, families, the unemployed, elderly and disabled, with no time limit on benefits

Unlimited income redistribution, now theres a good idea......give the lazy ass folks absolutly no reason whatsoever to get out and find a job...why should they, people like me are paying their bills...


These are just a few parts of the green parties platform which is FULL of socialistic ideas. For someone who claims to like freedom, i cant understand how you can possibly think the green party is for you.

Mawwle

[Arri Skywolf]

Explain to me how I made your point. The intent of a vehicle is not to kill, maim, or injure in any sort of way. What's the intent of a firearm? To kill, maim, or injure. Be it offensively, or defensively, doesn't matter. The intent is to harm.

[Mawwle]

Sure I believe people shoul dbe able to do what they want as long as it doesn't effect other people in a negative manner, however, face it: people drive drunk/high and they kill people.

Would you want to be the person to tell that that it's too bad their loved one was taken from them but they should be happy that the person who did it had the freedom to be able to become high/drunk/fucked up in the first place?

Your missing the point Arri......

You cant outlaw everything that "can cause" someone to get hurt or killed. You should however punish someone that DOES do something to hurt or kill someone else'

Drinking alchohol in no way affects anyone else

Driving a car while drunk DOES affect other poeple and should be punishable...oh wait, it is illegal, although i dont think the punishment is severe enough.

However, You do have and should have the right to drive drunk, without your seatbelt, in a car with no brakes lights, speeding over 100 mph, ignoring stop signs and redlights, and driving in the wrong lane......as long as its on YOUR private property :)

Mawwle

[Mawwle]

Originally posted by Arri Skywolf
Explain to me how I made your point. The intent of a vehicle is not to kill, maim, or injure in any sort of way. What's the intent of a firearm? To kill, maim, or injure. Be it offensively, or defensively, doesn't matter. The intent is to harm.

You make it too easy...

The intent of a firearm is to hunt for food, sport shooting, or self defense........

Just because outlaws choose to use it in other manners is no reason to tell law abiding citizens they cant have it...


The intent of an automobile is to transport, sport race, or leisure drives.....

Just because outlaws choose to use it in other manners is no reason to tell law abiding citizens they cant have it.

Mawwle

[Mawwle]

Make alcohol illegal and it will be less abundant and less deaths will be caused by it.

Will fewer people be killed by drunk drivers? Most likely ...yes that is true.

However the number of people killed if alchohol is outlawed will rise MANY fold over what it is now. Did you learn nothing from prohibition?

Are you learning nothing from the pointless drug war that now exists? Do you not realize that over 95% of all drug related deaths are due to the fact that they are illegal in the first place?

Almost all drug deaths are people shooting each other over the extremly high profit margins , territory, ect.....

The actual number of drug related deaths that are because "someone high did something dumb" (i.e. driving, playing with a firearm ect) is very low.

If you outlaw alchohol , we will have even more black markets, more organized crime, more deaths, more corruption, but hey, i am sure you could get Al Capone to vote to outlaw alchohol again.

Mawwle

[Mawwle]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vallidus

Maybe we could put a super-ban on it, so we know theyre serious~


Originally posted by Lovaelihn


That quote made me laugh.

"What, you gonna arrest me for one joint, cop?"

"No.. you are being super-duper arrested, sir."

"... What?!"


Haha, That gave me a good laugh.....

[Mawwle]

Originally posted by stofferr


Gun, purpose? Kill or injure. There is no other purpose really.
Have it for protection? protection from other people carrying guns?. Outlawing guns would remove the purpose of owning a gun for protection if no one had them (there are of course people who are going to have them, but if you bring it to such a low level it would be irellevant to own a gun)

Do you mean the way we have brought drugs to such a low level that they are irellevant? I mean drugs are the most sought after contra-ban in the US....and the one Contra-ban we spend more money on trying to rid this country of than any other.

How hard is it to get drugs?

And while i am on this subject.....I'm going to give you a magic button, you can push it and all guns would vanish, every last one. Great right?

People are still going to steal, kill, mame, wound ect, only NOW they have no fear of being shot and know that their chances of any serious injury are greatly reduced. So now there is nothing to stop them from taking a baseball bat and breaking into your home, killing you, then raping your wife......especially if the scumbag is 6'8'' and weighs 375 and trained.......A gun would have been the only thing that would "level the playing field"

What about granny? hell, you dont even need a baseball bat to break into her home and hurt her... she has no chance against any fit young man. If there were guns however, the field would be equal.

My point is this, there are evil people out there that wont hesitate to harm you. Outlaw one weapon and criminals will use another..knives, bats, swords, whatever.....the difference is with most other weapons the proficiency greatly depends on the persons physical fitness, where as with guns it does not. So your Wife can defend herself against that 6 foot 300 pound asailant.

Mawwle

[Mawwle]

Originally posted by Arri Skywolf
Hi Darapist, just stfu, k? You go ahead and pack heat, then when your wife decides your dick is too small and she fucks someone else and you kill that someone else, you can rot your ass in prison for the rest of your life. k? :)


Oh, and outlawing guns would keep them out of the hands of people who maybe law abiding citizen, but people have shown they can't control their 'murderous rages.' So it would keep that tool of violence out of their hands.

Wanna know how many people in the U.S. with concealed carry licenses have been convicted for murder?

I mean in the last 200 years that is.......


read closely




ZERO

Mawwle

[Noobe]

Is that statement true?

[Mawwle]

Of course its true heh.

Mawwle

[Noobe]

Then I could be the first, if I really wanted to, eh?

[Mawwle]

Roflmao

How old are you? and do you have a carry permit?


Mawwle

[Noobe]

I'm 16 and I don't carry a permit :( I don't even own a gun, nor does anyone in my house. I have NO intention on shooting anyone, tho :P I've never even shot a gun :( I think it would be cool to blast away a duck or soemthing, tho.

[Mawwle]

Oh, ok, then i will call my fbi buddy back and tell him to stop the squad cars that are most certainly outside your home as we speak.

Mawwle

[Noobe]

haha

[bling]

so hold on a sec mawwle, you're saying that you're opposed to the "magic button pushing insta removal of ALL guns right?" well that doesnt make much sense to me.I disagree with your assertion that people are going to kill always regardless of how they do it, only really really fucked up people could think to stab someone to death with a pencil which is why it never ever happens, so I disagree with your assertion that the weapon has nothing to do with it. And I also disagree that a robber is going to club someone to death with a bat as well or knife, it takes a lot more balls to knife someone to death than it does to pull a trigger in the heat of something, like for example your confronting the robbers with your gun not knowing if they have one too. And I also disagree with your assertion that both parties having guns evens out the playing field I mean what about the 6'8 350 guy or the occasional homeowner who knows self defense, if the robber has a gun then what are they supposed to do. I mean would you really prefer a robber having a gun and you having a gun to nobody having a gun? This isn't a wild west duel or anything, and dont tell me you would always have the upper hand if a robber entered your house, you make it seem like the homeowner would always be prepared for the intruder. And when you have a confused homeowner pulling out a gun on surprised robber(s) w/ a gun then you have issues. And to your point that all grandmas should carry guns and live in a state of paranoia maybe granny should invest in an alarm system or dog instead? Have a little more faith in the police system, because it is their job and I dont think its worth it to live like that gun "enthusiast" in police academy and come out guns blazing at the slightest disturbance in your house.

[bling]

Originally posted by Mawwle


Wanna know how many people in the U.S. with concealed carry licenses have been convicted for murder?

I mean in the last 200 years that is.......


read closely




ZERO

Mawwle

WTF !!!!??$$$#@ I mean if Marena Bobbet cut of her husbands balls then a whole lotta people must have blown away their spouses with the family gun after they found out they've been cheated on.

[Mawwle]

Originally posted by bling
I mean would you really prefer a robber having a gun and you having a gun to nobody having a gun?

If i knew someone was going to break into my home with the intent of killing me or my family then yes, i would rather the scenario be "we both have guns" than the scenario be neither of us have guns, because if he intends to do harm, he is going to be prepared. And as i am not "trained" in hand to hand combat, and i am 5'11 at 175 lbs...i dont wanna take my chances with "bubba" who is out to kill me...be cause if it came to a knife fight, or a baseball bat fight, i would probably lose. a Gun fight? hell, i have at least a 50/50 chance at survival there.


If someone is intending to rape my wife, then i would most certainly rather "both have guns" than neither have guns. An woman without a firearm is EASILY over powered by a man with a knife, club ect.... even if they BOTh have a knife, the favor is strongly in the rapists favor....if they both have guns? its a lot closer to even.

I really dont see where this is so hard to understand.

Mawwle

[bling]

All I was saying was that if both parties have a gun, it escalates the chance for serious injury when it could be avoided. I wasn't talking about if you knew someone was planning on harming you since robbers rarely break in for confrontational purposes anyway . Whatever makes you sleep easier at night I guess but seriously where do you live anyway where the thought of someone breaking into your house with the intent of murdering your family/ raping your wife a real one?

[Arri Skywolf]

He must live close to Darapist.

[Mawwle]

I live in the suburbs of Atlanta....and have never NEEDED my guns, other than for sport purposes.

But then again, i have never NEEDED my seatbelt either, but i still wear it all the time....just in case.

I know its hard to believe that guns can be used for good, and in fact ARE used for good MANY times. Unfortunatly the medie is reluctant to report it as they are almost all left wing biased.

I'm not trying to throw some conspiricy theory out about the media, just a simple fact that we live with. Did you know that one of the BIG school shootings (not columbine, and i cant remember which one) that when the whacko kid started shooting his classmates and teachers, the school principal had a gun in his car? Unfortunatley the car was parked OFF school property because of laws that prevent him from bringing a weapon onto school property(this law did nothing to stop the kid who intended to harm others from bringing his).

Anyway, the principle made a 100 yard dash to his car, got his gun, ran back to the school and STOPPED the kid, after he had already killed 10 or so people.

So here we have it....a gun was used to STOP crime......the crime could have been stopped MUCH sooner without restrictive gun laws, and how does the media report it? Out of over 600 Major newspapers and TV news shows, only 3 reported how the crime was actually stopped. All of the other news stations and papers stated..."the boy was confronted by the school principle and was convinced to give up his gun."

Now dont you find it kinda odd that they would not simply say that he gave up his gun because the principle had a gun of his own?

Mawwle

[Arri Skywolf]

YES YOU ARE RIGHT! LET US ALL BE ALLOWED TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS ON SCHOOL GROUNDS! THAT'S THE WAY TO SOLVE EVERYTHING!

[Mawwle]

Solve everything ? i doubt it....but it certainly would have saved a few lives here.

Mawwle

[Darwoth]

dont bother mawwle (unless you get amusement from the stupid =P), they are just grasping at straws. if they had anything worth saying theyd have said it in the other thread (or this one) they havent.

[Meter]

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/17/1459217&mode=thread&tid=158

This thing is getting dumber and dumber. Soon enough they will be taking blood samples and send you back home if they discover you have a cold or some genetic deficiency (sp?).

[Eager]

Originally posted by stofferr
Imo guns belong to police, airfoce, army, navy and hunters. i see no reason for a private person to own a gun, serious.

Hehe are you serious? Like what, professional hunters?


purpose? transportation.
Gun, purpose? Kill or injure.[/B]

Actually, guns aren't created just to kill.

B]Have it for protection? protection from other people carrying guns?. Outlawing guns would remove the purpose of owning a gun for protection if no one had them [/B]

This has been gone over time and again. How does outlawing guns remove the purpose of owning one for protection. You amazingly assume that outlawing them will remove them from criminals' hands. Again I must ask, are you serious??