Hate wins irl

[Vallidus]

Actually bud i didnt call ya stupid, I was a lil worried that it may come across like that but NO i didnt call you st00pit, st00pit ;)

[Arri Skywolf]

Well I guess I am st00pit :p

[Darwoth]

actually "racism" is natural and prevalent among all races. every single person in the world has prejudices and stereotypes whether they admit to them or not.

but its only called "racist" when its from a white person.

im sure there are a LOT of people who would whine racism at me because i dont like to have illegal immigrants from mexico flooding into the country by the tens of millions, nor do i particularly care for niggers, of which the overwhelming majority of blacks (especially the males) in america can be classified as.


dont think a whole lot of people would qualify me as stupid though.

[Arri Skywolf]

You make me want to go take a cold shower.

[yaarii]

Originally posted by darwoth
dont think a whole lot of people would qualify me as stupid though. [/B]

I qualify you as a redneck.

[Agrul]

"every single person in the world has prejudices and stereotypes whether they admit to them or not."

The difference is in how much you let them rule your thoughts.

Sure, social stereotypes and common phobias evoke spontaneous, 'natural' reactions and thoughts towards a certain people or nationality - but that doesn't mean I act on or believe in them.

Fuck race and appearance, there are better values to judge a person by~

Agrul

[Vallidus]

Like booby size!!!

[Agrul]

Ass, tits, personality.

They're all up there somewhere, right?

Agrul

[Genaside]

"Fuck race and appearance, there are better values to judge a person by"

Actually when you have to make a fast decision about someone without time to delibirate, there is no better option. Stereotypes are more often right then not, and that's a fact.

Would I judge my neighbor according to race? No. Would I judge the nappy black guy walking behind me on a dark street on stereotype? You bet~ Time and place for everything, but stating that stereotypes are wrong a majority of the time is just statistically false :(

[DArkfrost187]

I been to France in the past,and I don't want to get into how the French live. It will make you all vomit la ~

I gotta say poor Mexicans are more cleaner than the French.

[Danubi]

can this Thread die soon plz =/

[Syft]

I know evils suck, the real question is do you? :o

[Agrul]

Shrug, when self-preservation and / or financial-preservation comes into play, I wouldn't trust really anyone walking behind me in a dark alley at night.

Black, white, dressed up in a corny costume. Knife, gun, fist.

Doesn't really matter - watch them all equally, why risk myself pretending any are less likely than the rest?

If you're going to be paranoid, may as well be equally so~

Agrul

[Genaside]

"Shrug, when self-preservation and / or financial-preservation comes into play"

That comes into play basically every time you leave your house.

"If you're going to be paranoid, may as well be equally so"

That would be a very sad way to go through life. I think there's a disease associated with being paranoid of everyone around you~

Stereotypes help everyone get through life daily. And I don't mean the kind where you think every black guy is out to rape you and every arab has c-4 strapped to his chest. People who think otherwise have watched one too many "fight for your right" specials on MTV and other such pc related propaganda~

[Stoffer]

I used to go to bars when i was 18, hi fake ID. But I grew out of that. It's not a happy atmosphere and I have better ways to waste my life away then drinking.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Swear all you will, but dont diss the booze!

[Agrul]

"That comes into play basically every time you leave your house."

Within reason.

"That would be a very sad way to go through life. I think there's a disease associated with being paranoid of everyone around you~"

Again, within reason. I kind of thought that was implied - I suppose with someone trying so very hard to prove he isn't as dim as he's been made to appear (it was rather amusing watching you and Nnuk go back and forth ;p), I should clarify.

As for 'everyone around you'.. obviously, not everyone's a complete stranger. Be reasonably (there's that word again) wary about anyone you're unfamiliar with until such a time as you feel able to judge them one way or the other.

That doesn't mean assume they're going to knife you - simply that I wouldn't take someone's race as meaning they're more likely to assault me than the next guy.

Stereotypes can help one in life - racism is taking said stereotypes to extremes, though. There is a line, learn and avoid it~

Agrul

[Genaside]

"There is a line, learn and avoid it~"

Agreed. Huge difference between being more careful around someone of a certain background in a situation and being rude or disrespectful to the same said person without any provocation.

Keep in mind though the black man is close to 50% of the prison population in America yet nowhere near that % of the total population...therefore the stereotypes on which stranger is more likely to assault you in the subway is not false at all.

No racism in that, just plain statistical facts that the politically correct media tries oh so hard to make you think otherwise on.

p.s. why do people sign their name on posts when it's 1 inch to the left of it in bold letters? :(

[Agrul]

Shrug, I find the chances that anyone's going to attack you on the subway to be astoundingly low, and more dependant on the area and time of night you're traveling in than the color of the people you're traveling with.

Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to assume guy_x is going to jump me because he's black, when guy_y and guy_z are standing nearby with chains covering their hands and a knife hilt sticking out of either pocket.

And while that is judging someone without knowing them, I find appearances far less deceiving than stupidly unreliable skin-color.

Posture, dress, and other apparel would seem far more telling to me than a person's race - an aspect of people by which I'd rather not gamble.

And I sign posts out of habit~

Agrul

[Aioros Durden]

THIS THREAD IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Genaside]

Agrul people who commit crime don't walk around with chains around their hands and wielding knives in plain sight. You're making arguments while totally ignoring mine.

You tell me I should look out for people who dress ghetto and act shady. That's fine, but if that was the determining factor for crime you'd have none. You totally brush aside the fact that white people are a huge majority in the country (something like 75%?) Yet a much much much smaller percentage of them are in prison. If that doesn't tell you who commits most of the crime all around us then you're good at ignoring things~

You're just stuck on the fact that TV has been teaching you that if you attribute a certain characteristic on any minority (even when it's true) then you must be racist irl and your dream is to kill all of them for no reason because you're evil! Get real :\

[Aioros Durden]

I just read the last post Gena said and it seems we're watching American History X. Kick ass movie!!

[Rhainy]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Swear all you will, but dont diss the booze!

hehe sorry stoffer :(
/hug

booze are fine, in moderation, just a stupid thing to brag about ;p

[Synd D`nys]

Isn't French a synonym for stupid?

Nope. It's a synonym for "I surrender".

[Arri Skywolf]

Is the word 'booze' plural?

[Hamadryad]

Who said I was bragging?

And please get your ugly hands off stofferr~

-Hamadryad
Artful Death

[Agrul]

"Agrul people who commit crime don't walk around with chains around their hands and wielding knives in plain sight. You're making arguments while totally ignoring mine."

Mm hm.

"You tell me I should look out for people who dress ghetto and act shady. That's fine, but if that was the determining factor for crime you'd have none. You totally brush aside the fact that white people are a huge majority in the country (something like 75%?) Yet a much much much smaller percentage of them are in prison. If that doesn't tell you who commits most of the crime all around us then you're good at ignoring things~"

It may say whose been caught for committing crimes - but it doesn't say why, nor indicate that I should be on the lookout for any race more than another. In fact, by your reasoning, they're in prison, so I won't see them on the streets - it doesn't say a damned thing about the probability of one race to commit crimes over another. That's not a factor, sorry.

"You're just stuck on the fact that TV has been teaching you that if you attribute a certain characteristic on any minority (even when it's true) then you must be racist irl and your dream is to kill all of them for no reason because you're evil! Get real :\"

No, I'm saying race in no way effects a person's likeliness to commit a crime.

I'm calling your statistics ignorant - ignoring the pertinent information (financial situation, family situation, etc.) and coming to an altogether ridiculous assumption.

That blacks are more likely to rob you than whites.

Or, by your survey, that blacks are more likely to be caught doing it than whites.

That's bullshit. It's an unrelated factor, save in those cases where racism itself makes it a factor.

As a comparison, let's say we polled the world, and it turns out all suicidal individuals have two things in common -

75% had horrible, emotionally traumatizing childhoods.

75% of them eat wheat.

I could go on to claim you should be worried about all wheat-eaters - statistically, they're more likely to kill themselves! omg!

But that would just be fucking stupid. It's an unrelated coincidence. Good day~

Agrul

[Genaside]

"I'm calling your statistics ignorant - ignoring the pertinent information (financial situation, family situation, etc.) "

Wow can you be anymore of an Mtv pc fanboy? I know you're like 15 and all but you must have some real world experience right? Or do you talk about stuff you see on tv all day?

Are you too blind to realize that the statistics I point out are all linked to the things you say they are missing? No one ever said they commit more crime because of the color of their skin duh. But a large percentage of minorities grow up poor, in bad environments, with bad supervision/upraising, and lack of education etc. etc.

That is why a much larger percentage of minorities commits crime then the white population. And for those exact reasons if you pick out 50 totally random whites, asians, blacks, and mexicans... and you tell me they all have 100% exact same chance of commiting a crime 5 years down the road then I can safely call you a child ignorant of the world around you. Because sorry, even though all man is created equal...they don't grow up and go through life equally, regardless if it's under their controll or not.

p.s. Learn a little something about correlational studies before you make yourself look like a retard. The relationship between a group having a large majority of it in jail and its likelyness to commit crime exists. The relationship between someone killing themselves and eating wheat has no realistic link. Therefore you cannot use that as a correlation, and your analogy is null and void.

[Agrul]

"Actually when you have to make a fast decision about someone without time to delibirate, there is *no better option*."

Body language / posture, Appearance / Dress.

"Stereotypes are more often right then not, and that's a fact."

Thus the point of stereotypes. But you don't need them (more useful observations / information cancel out need for entirely unreliable racial stereotype~).

To sum up my stance in 2 sentences. We're going back and forth here pointlessly - if you can disprove the above, go ahead~

Agrul

[Genaside]

I'm glad you finally saw the light though my above post. And of course I agree you wouldn't use stereotypes to judge your neighbor or classmate (or any people who you can get to know in a non-threatening environment), cause then that would be racism~

[Agrul]

You're ignoring what I've actually said.

You don't need (nor do I personaly use) racial stereotypes in everyday life - posture and appearance - two very basic observations easily made concerning any individual, are far more informative than mere race, if for the same reason.

More specifically, this contradicts the scope you've set - I'm not limiting this to friends and neighbors.

As for 'seeing the light' - unlike you, I discuss things with an open mind - impress me and do the same.

Agrul

[Genaside]

Nm arguing with you is pointless, you think you know the world because you watched some tv. Just remember the person trying to commit a crime isn't going to show it by posture or apparel any more then the wigger white kid in a Fubu jacket in your 1st period math class.

[Agrul]

Give a bit, Genaside's ego strokes itself.

Point out that I'm not about to cave in - Genaside declares that I'm obviously an ignorant fool incapable of understanding the vast importance of judging people by race, disregarding the decidedly poor accuracy of this scale.

Ah well, no new territory there. Same "I'm always 100% right!" problem you've always had.

And I thought we'd already gone over TV - I rarely watch anything at all =o . A cartoon here and there (yes, I'm so mature~), the occasional national catastrophe / news (Sniper reports and such~), but for the most part, I'm either outside or on my comp. TV's just not all that interesting.

Agrul

[Genaside]

Stroking my ego? You're telling me you can tell people's criminal motives by their posture and aparrel lol. Then I guess 75% of my graduating highschool class are serial rapists according to you :(

I'm just telling you to get a clue, and not preach about things you have next to no experience with. You'll learn as you grow , you can't be born knowing it all unfortunately.

[Lovaelihn]

Whereas some racial tendancies come to the head of our societies, nobody could honestly say that race in itself is a deciding factor for the actions of any one person ( or groups of people).

Would a black man be more likely to commit a crime if he was in a higher income bracket? There's really no way to tell for sure, because none of the mediums can be brought to a zero qualifier. Will you judge someone because of the color of their skin? Maybe.

Will you consider yourself superior to another person because of their race? That is racism.

If you fear a man behind you in an alley moreso because he is black than any other deciding factor, I would say that you lean more towards a stereotypical judgement. Would this be wrong? Not really. As far as simple numbers go, you would be right. You are more likely to be mugged by a minority than a white person, simply speaking from statistical bias.

I think what Agrul is trying to say is this :

If you are being followed by a black man in a business suit, would you be nervous? What if you were being followed by a white man in rags?

There are more important factors than race.

/rant off - Go ahead and flame me about how I am nobody. :p

[Vallidus]

if I see a white scumbag followin me in a dark alley, Imma be just as wary(sp?) of him as if he was a black scumbag~

[Genaside]

"nobody could honestly say that race in itself is a deciding factor for the actions of any one person"

Agreed, anyone can easily come to this conclusion after living amongst a population of any race other then their own (if they didn't know this beforehand).

Both of you made great points while inadvertantly weakaning Agrul's argument. Would I fear a black man in a suit over a white man in rags? Of course not.

But as I said: Drunks, bums, crack-heads and the such are the kinds you can judge based on clothes etc. Are you for one moment going to argue that those are the type of people that make up the majority of violent crimes? ;p

No heh regardless of the race, it's more then likely going to be someone dressed in plain clothing that wouldn't make you think twice....or at least wouldn't make you think twice relative to todays pop fashion.

Hence my first point, that no matter how much agrul would wish he had proof against, still stands: statistically speaking, race is the best bet on judging something like that on a whim without the ability to gather better info.

[Wipoleen]

Actually, when i am work and making descisions on who i watch and who i dont, it comes down to what they are doing, not race, not skin color. They come in looking like bums, i watch them, they come in throwing glances at me trying to act non chalant, i watch them. They come in wearing clean cloths, and go about thier business, i usually ignore them. I also rely on instincts a lot, you would be surprised how many 'normal' people you can catch stealing just due to a gut reaction. Skin color sometimes can be a determining factor, but very very rarely, it has more to do with thier overall apperance and mannerisms.

[DArkfrost187]

I would be so scared if I was in a dark alley ,and five Puerto Rican adolescents approached me. Especially if they looked like Menudo boys. Man they would try to grab my ass or something la ~

Gives me the shivers :eek:

[Lovaelihn]

Are you for one moment going to argue that those are the type of people that make up the majority of violent crimes?

I would say that those groups are proportionately more likely to commit a violent crime than a well-dressed group of people that are not abusing a substance, yes. As for the Majority? We'd have to classify all violent crimes by what the person was wearing, and that would simply be a matter of conjecture and timing. Rags to some are fashion to another, etc...

Allow me to continue :

statistically speaking, race is the best bet on judging something like that on a whim without the ability to gather better info.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. See, although it is still stereotyping to a certain degree, I feel much safer making a pre-judgement on a person due to their outward appearance via clothing, posture, smell, and/or sound than the color of thier skin.

My point was basically this - if you see a black man wearing a suit, what crosses your mind?

"That is a black man?"

or

"That is a business man?"

I think that in regards to your own personal safety, the second option would ring more true.

[Stoffer]

Im 2 lazy to type, but i very much agree with Lovaelihn's last 2 posts.

[Darwoth]

i dont really know where to start on this but ill try, this thread is a perfect example of how the media has gulled people into this politically correct bullshit over the years.

first of all lets begin with a starting point, this starting point will be the fact that blacks in the united states make up around 12% of the total population, roughly half of that number are black males. the prison population is approximately 70% black.

i dont understand how anyone can be so blind as to be incapable of drawing the obvious conclusion that if you are robbed, your wife or girlfriend raped, car stolen or any of many various other crimes of that nature the perp will most likely be black.






extending from that lets examine the double standard of white vs black in america.


why is it ok for their to be a miss black america pageant every year?

why is it ok for their to be the national association for the advancement of colored people?

why is it ok for their to be a negro college fund?

why is it that calling people "rednecks" is the only form of socially acceptable politically correct stereotyping?

why is it that "comedians" like chris rock, phil harvey bernie mac, sedrick the entertainer etc. can all get up on stage totally shitting all over whites but if a white comedian did anything even close his career would be over?

why is it that the news when reporting crimes is QUICK to announce if the criminal was a white, but when it is a black they dont say anything about what race he was?

why is it that only heterosexual white males can be guilty of a "hate crime"?

why is it that companies are forced to hire underskilled overpaid black workers in lieu of a qualified white (or other ethnicity) one thanks to affirmative action?

why is it huge anti white organizations like the nation of islam are not called racist and are given airtime on news, publicity to all their gatherings etc etc but if a white organization has a demonstration no matter what their original message was they are immediately demonzied as "bigots" and get no publicity other than negative?

why is it college campuses across the country have various student run organizations for blacks but no white ones are allowed?


i could go on but i dont think i need to, as for why its ok? i can tell you right now why, because nobody fucking says anything about it for fear of being criticised, thats why.











then these same people have the gull to demand reparations, as if the untold billions in the form of welfare, government funded programs, medicaid, drug treatment programs, prison costs and many others we pay every single year, the money of which is STOLEN from YOURS and MINE paycheck isnt enough?

as if a bunch of people who were never around during slavery should get reparations in the first place? why not demand reparations from the african bushtribes who are the ones that captured the slaves before selling them to european slave traders? oh, because africa is the worst shithole in the world? imagine that.

tell you what im part irish, so surely somehwere along the line my ancestors were an indentured servants, do i get reparations to?

ill continue this later.

[Lovaelihn]

I don't have time for a lengthy response, Dar, but I'll make a few minor points...

i dont understand how anyone can be so blind as to be incapable of drawing the obvious conclusion that if you are robbed, your wife or girlfriend raped, car stolen or any of many various other crimes of that nature the perp will most likely be black.

This is 'statistically' correct, but I'd wager that these statistics do not play into the financial standpoint of said races, and whereas I am not saying that black people are 'poor, downtrodden people', I can say with something resembling surety that if you come from a lower-class home, you are more likely to commit crimes. What if the entire society were turned upside down and whites were the minority? Would we be saying the same thing? Perhaps, but there's no real way to find out.

extending from that lets examine the double standard of white vs black in america.

I agree that there are quite a few double standards in the U.S. today, and that a white male actually has the hardest time of all ethnic groups when it comes to certain things ( i.e. scholarships ). This is by no means fair, and it should be abolished. Since it's not politically correct to consider race as a factor, how can you consider it for special treatment?

I agree.

I can see how you would want to compare the two seperate issues here, but I don't see them as the same. Determining whether or not someone is dangerous or slacking in some way is not relevant to their skin color.

[Damphier]

...I hear you Darwoth, I don't neccesarily agree with you, but I hear you. And don't go calling me one of the brainwashed because I certainly am not. In my workplace (at a very "high class" Country Club) I see cases of this PC brainwashing EVERYday. Trust me. The members that I work for, although good people, still call ALL non-white races "colored folk" for fear of being branded a racist.

We have similar issues with this homosexual man we have on our wait staff in the restaurant. He is a good waiter and a nice guy outside of the workplace, but everytime he does something wrong and gets bitched at about it (like drops a glass, or takes a long break) he blames the negative attention from authority SOLELY on bias against his sexual preference. This is the shit that I can't stand. First he says he wants equal rights...so my boss yells at him when he does something wrong...but then he uses the gay thing as a cop-out...this I cannot stand. In the past month I am the only one with nuts enough to pull him aside after work and approach him about it. I wasn't as asshole about it but I was firm with him and made him realize what kind of a situation he was putting us in. He's getting better :-P

But anyway, it seems the same way with most minority groups. Darwoth is 1000% correct about one thing though (imo), if we do away with all the idiots who are brainwashed by the media, if there comes a time when we all can just look each other in the eye and calmly say what we feel (*gasp* what a concept) then we have taken a very positive step towards unwinding this giant spiral of bullshit that we have so ignorantly yet precisely created...

[Damphier]

...sorry to all you PC people but LOL @ "why not demand reparations from the african bushtribes who are the ones that captured the slaves before selling them to european slave traders? oh, because africa is the worst shithole in the world? imagine that." -Darwoth

sad but true :((

[Agrul]

"Then I guess 75% of my graduating highschool class are serial rapists according to you "

Age and area are obviously factors as well. It's not all that terribly difficult to tell those trying to act cool from the ones that actually can't afford anything better~

And let's flip that around: You're telling me 50% of my HS peers are 'serial rapists.' Works both ways Genaside.

Quite simply, I don't find race to be the best factor in determining how one's going to act - and given that nearly all other factors imply the same 'why,' I don't see as they can coexist in one decision-making process, either.

I'm going to ignore the 'you can't be born knowing it all,' comment. You're still young yourself, Genaside. And contrary to your own beliefs, you and Rhainy aren't particularly astounding exceptions to the rule.

Agrul

[Genaside]

"And let's flip that around: You're telling me 50% of my HS peers are 'serial rapists."

No, I'm not. Find the % of the black population currently in jail then take that out of the 50% of the black students in your school. Then you can restate what you just said^^ And I can assure you it will be a much much larger number then if you applied it to the other 50%.

Sure the number will fluctuate depending on whether you live in Beverly Hills or Harlem, but I'm sure there would be an average somewhere in between since all crime is not commited in Harlem.

I've already agreed with you that somone being born a certain color doesn't make them necessarilly worse then someone else. But now you're just arguing plain old statistics, and you're wrong....which is damn foolhardy for someone even like you who will fight tooth and nail in order to avoid admiting wrong.

p.s. Dar don't even fucking start me on all the double standards we live with daily, you can write pages and pages on obvious retarded ongoings in the nation today and all it will ever end in is brainwashed pc zombies calling you racist.

[Aioros Durden]

I'm Mexican, am I most likely to become a thief in the future?

[Arri Skywolf]

Why do people feel the need to distinguish between race in the first place?

'Colored folk?' Guess what, we're colored. If our skin had no pigment and we were white we would not be very healthy ;). We're pink. They're brown. Not black. People say 'black and white' because the two colors are the complete opposite of each other. People who use those words to distinguish between people are setting up a barrier.

When you're trying to point someone out in a crowd, to your friend, do you say 'that black guy wearing x,y,z?' Why? Why not say 'that guy over there in the white shirt, black dockers, black shoes, etc etc?' When you are pointing out a 'white' person do you say 'That white guy over there?' I doubt it.

You put barriers up between people of a different ethnicity and then you expect them to be like you. You treat them differently and they're going to act differently.

'White' people growing up in poverty will produce the kinds of criminals as 'blacks' growing up in poverty. 'Black' people growing up in a middle to upper class environment will produce just as many doctors and lawyers as 'white' people.

[Agrul]

"who will fight tooth and nail in order to avoid admiting wrong."

Look whose talking ^ .

You apply that so often to me, and yet, unless the other person flat out pretends they're absolutely incorrect, you declare them an ignorant, brain-washed fool. Double standards do indeed run the world - and youre apparently no exception to that, either =p .

"No, I'm not. Find the % of the black population currently in jail then take that out of the 50% of the black students in your school. Then you can restate what you just said^^ And I can assure you it will be a much much larger number then if you applied it to the other 50%."

You mean "Find the % of the black population *currently attending your HS* and in jail," right? Considering in your example, you limited my own equally broad generalization to your own little section of HS graduates, it would only be fair to treat mine in the same way.

In which case, I'd still have to strongly disagree. My school - from my own, personal experience, which, according to you, is lacking in all other areas - has more (which only makes sense, considering the slightly uneven populations of the two, proportionately) as many retarded, substance-abusing, unstable, unmotivated, financially-lacking whites as blacks - and I'd bet a near equal percentage of both will turn to crime to solve these defficencies.

You're far more likely to come up with the best judgement of a person if you take into consideration body language, dress, age, area, and things along those lines beforehand or instead of race. They both stem from the same why - poverty, substance-abuse, etc. Mine are simply far more selective, and allow you to base your conclusion on more personal, limited data.

"I've already agreed with you that somone being born a certain color doesn't make them necessarilly worse then someone else"

Yes, but you've yet to agree that race is, while useful in determining probability while you yourself are isolated from the situation and people involved, not-so when dealing with the more personal issue of 'self-preservation,' wherein you're forced to make quick judgements on the people around you, given a basic set of observations and inferences at your disposal.

And that run-on's what I'm supporting~

As for Dar's post.. for the most part (there's always something to disagree with, but I don't feel like analyzing two people's responses.. I'm gonna go rollerblading instead, k~), I agree. I don't even rememebr what exactly I took issue with in your initial response - I'll check later. But there are certainly doublestandards which have seemingly flip-flopped in the past few centuries, and those I'd gladly abolish as well.

But we're arguing the usefulness of statistical, race-based data now, stfu :P .

Agrul

[Genaside]

Disregarding everything I have said, and what you have said....(just to tie everything up in a neat little package)

Do you think racial profiling by law enforcement authority absolutely does not work and should not be used?

[DArkfrost187]

Airos.... Orale !!!! Ese ~

Me Mexican to :p

[Agrul]

I believe it has its uses, and have no problem with its being made use of - depending on how and for what the analysis need be utilized, race may or may not be the most helpful separation of data, but it may as well be included for those conditions under which it is particularly useful.

Agrul

[Wipoleen]

I have to say good job to Argul, for presenting some of the best arguments I have yet to see on this board :)


I get the feeling that you are in some sort of debat class. Does not matter who is right or wrong, but who wins the argument. ;)

[Aioros Durden]

<--- preppy mexican

<--- don't use, ese, vato, que pasa, etc

<--- uses que ondas, x, que pex, etc


^_________________________^

[Agrul]

Thanks, Wipoleen - er. I think :P .

But no, no debate class / teams in my past or near future. I've been an amazingly-introverted fuck for a good, long time, and extracurricular activities never really fit the description.

May change eventually, but no time soon =o .

Dar... skimmed it over again, and I honestly think I agree on just about everything.

The only point I'd really argue is the media's coverage - I just don't see the point in bringing that up, when, for the most part, the media is in no way concerned with the moral or logical aspects and consequences (those things directly related to the hypocrisy behind beliefs - that is, they don't actually believe them - or rather, they may or may not), but simply boosting its ratings. Yes, it sucks - but if fault be found therein, it lies in our own (or, at least, the masses in general) tendency to respond more emphatically to controversy (propaganda-laden or not, biased or otherwise) than fact, and not with the actual issue of hypocrisy itself.

You've a point anyways - I mean, said biased reporting may very well be construed as racism to a degree - but I just don't feel that's the heart of that particular issue.

Agrul

[The Truth (tm)]

imo rhainy is right and the other one is wrong.
the key is in the first thread when she edit:told rhainy to get lost..
if you look closely enough, then you'll see that rhainy is right, rhainy is the victim, and rhainy is also god.

[Arri Skywolf]

Did she fly cross country to squeeze your tictac?

[Hamadryad]

Don't mind Genaside's silence, he's busy as a beaver leveling to 65 ;P

-Hamadryad
Artful Death

[Genaside]

Not sure what I would be replying to...seeing as the last thing I said was agreed with and no further arguments were started. Unless you care to open your fat mouth again?

Oh and I was 65 a couple days after release of PoP, now I can go back to logging on only for raids~ Xping isn't a level/per month affair when you don't suck :(

[Hamadryad]

It's a level per month affair when you log on for only a reasonable amount of time :-)



Oh and I was 65 a couple days after release of PoP,

Ie: "Well I stayed awake for about 60 or 70 hours straight so I could get 65 a few days after release of POP..."

-Hamadryad
Artful Death

[Genaside]

Wow too bad 61-64 is 15 hours of leveling and 65 is another 7 :(

[Rhainy]

I didn't read the last 3 or 4 pages but I had to reply to Darwoth's post on racism a few pages back.

I'm not the least bit racist being half and half 2 different races and being the first born in america of my family ;p But I agree 100% with his point about one sided racism.

As it is minorities can get away with alot more then your average white guy. Racist beauty pagents, award shows, things like that for blacks only but if it was white only it would be hateful.

Sexism and racism is excepted as long as it doesn't favor white males. I've seen lots of commercials and shit that says "So easy even a man can do it!" but if was "even a woman could do it" it would be sexist. Minorities don't want to be equal, they want to be treated special. I'm better because I suffered (even though you didn't it was your ancestors).

One of my favorite female heros was Susan B. Anthony who broke the law by voting when it was illigal for women to vote. When the authorties felt bad and went easy on her because she was a women, she demanded to be sent to jail, like an equal.

[Syft]

Racial profiling is neither accurate nor realistic. More black people do not commit crimes, it's not about if your black lol. The truth of it is more poor people commit crimes.

The poorer the neighborhood the lesser the chance that you have a future= a greater percentage of crime. It just so happens that there are more poor black people then white people. This is solely do to the fact that whites have longer family lines in the US.
Which allows them to have more family inheritance, check the percentage on rich families that produce rich successful children Im sure it's damned high.

I can't see the point in saying this guy who lives in Camden and grew up next a crackhouse is most likely gonna be a criminal. LMFAO no shit you'd be a criminal to if u grew up sucking on a crackheads nipple. :eek:

[Darwoth]

oh god there is so much bullshit here that i will just have to reply to this later when i have more time.

[Stoffer]

Syft is so very very very right.
/applaud.
Btw, this thread is turning nasty (

[Agrul]

With Rhainy and Hama clawing one another on AIM or wherever else they take out their frustrations, this thread's been a lot more boring / civil, actually :P .

"Racial profiling is neither accurate nor realistic."

It is accurate. More black people do commit crimes than whites - or, at least, given Darwoth / Genaside's example, more are caught for said crimes.

"More black people do not commit crimes, it's not about if your black lol."

Incorrect - correct. More black people do commit crimes (well, that's an assumption, taking the statistics a step further). But at the same time, no, race isn't the 'why' behind this.

And thus the heart of the argument Genaside left hanging a page or so back. Yea, statistically, blacks commit more crimes. No, race isn't the cause of this. It's simply fact.

However, given that both that which is more often the cause (poverty, substance-abuse, etc.) and simply those factors which arouse suspicion typically manifest themselves better via clothing, body language, age, etc., I don't see the point in purely - or even partially - racial distinction under the strict setting provided.. that being "split second decisions" to be made in a situation in which you're personally embroiled.

"The truth of it is more poor people commit crimes."

Agreed. You're doing what I did in the beginning - mixing up the why and the what. Racial profiling does have its place(s) - the situation described just isn't one of them ;p .

Rhainy, you needn't be sexist or racist. You're biased in your own way~

Agrul

[oNCe]

this thread only needs one thing to be complete:


http://www.darkenbane.com/pictures/319/4849/large/14558.jpg

[Hamadryad]

*Burries her head in Onec's luxurious fur* ;-)

-Hamadryad
Artful Death

[Aioros Durden]

THIS THREAD IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[iammonroe]

how do you level so fast? it takes me a while to level with 2 others in my group almost constantly fighting things at level 40

[Genaside]

Tier 2 or higher zones in PoP are insane xp, but only fpr uber groups. Basically all the xp mobs hit for 500+ and have 20k+ hp, but give insane xp. In my leet groups, 61-64, all together, were considerably faster then 59 alone was back in the day. When I powerleveled with a cleric~

[Dempig]

Lol i havnt read half of this thread but just want to let you 3 know that talking on the computer to someone you dont know and never met = not a relationship.

[AD Nnuk]

Well said, Dempig!

Who cares if a couple of people can spend hours on end talking about stuff they never thought they'd tell another person? What does it matter if folks share a slew of common interests? It's not like these things -- along with making each other laugh, offering a shoulder when needed, etc, etc, etc and etc -- are important to a relationship.

Hell... Compatability be damned! What is truly important to a longterm relationship is clearly that the initial meeting be done in a bar -- preferably under a haze of alcohol -- with hourly blowjobs and nightly fuck sessions commencing immediately!

Or maybe, just maybe, you're confusing the ability to get laid conveniently with an actual relationship.

Sarcasm aside.. I can think of a dozen couples off the top of my head that met via non-conventional means (such as these), got married and are currently living happily ever after -- A better percentage, I might add, than most peeps that hooked up for reasons no more important than a nice ass.

I'm not saying it's ideal -- But nothing ever is and if someone is dense enough to pass up what could potentially be the most important opportunity of their lives based solely upon where the stork dropped 'em off... Well... That, my aviak charm clad friend, is truly the definition of "sad".

Artfully Yours,

Nnuk
Master of the Arts
Artful Death Gallery (http://www.artfuldeath.com)

[Dempig]

Hey nnuk , guess what. Ill send you $3000 paypal if you can produce a screenshot of me in an aviak charm.

[Agrul]

Considering the history of this thread, I'd think EQ's 'unconventional meetings' would be far more similar to 'getting laid conveniently' than your post seems to imply, Nnuk ;p .

Agrul

[Hamadryad]

Dempig, I think it's time to quiet down, there are 21 screenshots that people actually bothered to post on Darkenbane.com (who knows how many more after people got bored), and in none of them are you wearing a single peice of droppable gear :P

-Hamadryad
Artful Death

[Arri Skywolf]

My enchanter is 65 already. I feel used :(

[Rhainy]

Clearly the best part of this thread is Arri's dancing Gir.

With Rhainy and Hama clawing one another on AIM or wherever else they take out their frustrations, this thread's been a lot more boring / civil, actually :P .

Nah I just put her on ignore on aim and it's all good ;p

I've just been too busy irl to feed this thread and now it's dead :(

And Agrul we're all biased in some way. You are biased against biase people. You don't know what in my life caused me to like or dislike the things I do, how can you judge me by it?

[Arri Skywolf]

It's true!


P.S. - I stole it! hah!

P.P.S. - I'm bitter I didn't find it first :(

[Dempig]

You still havnt gotten something better then a centi ls hama?

[Aioros Durden]

I SAID THIS FREAKING THREAD IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hamadryad]

Epic, thanks Dempig.

Rhainy I don't even use AIM anymore, and you were the one harassing me, silly.

-Hamadryad
Artful Death

[Agrul]

"And Agrul we're all biased in some way. You are biased against biase people. You don't know what in my life caused me to like or dislike the things I do, how can you judge me by it?"

The same way I can say I honestly dislike openly racist people. Or openly sexist individuals. Or anyone practicing an illogical prejudice against a people, gender, etc.

Knowing its cause would in no way justify it - perhaps a bit of empathy or sympathy, but the same basic disapproval / disgust.

As for your 'reverse logic' - I dislike those whom confess to be of a hurtful school of illogic. This makes sense - why should I respect or like anyone that can hate a person based on their weight, sex, age, race, or appearance in general? Regardless of what spurred this thought process, I can justify it (in fact, I just did). And the fact that I can actually justify it sets it apart from the other mindless, insulting drivel, thank you.

Agrul

[Rhainy]

Ok I'll try to explain it in a metaphor that might make sense. If you've ever know anyone really into meth like really into it, their skin breaks out horribly, unaturally so. You can look at their skin and know they do meth without a doubt. Now because people who are hardcore tweakers are not good poeple to be around, will lie and steal and cheat their own mother to get another fix, you can then be biased against tweakers in general. It is something a person *can* change, it's a chosen life style and one most people don't aprove of. Now if you saw a person with horribly broken out skin like that, you'd know they were a meth addict (they get like open sores and shit, it's really gross) then you can say that you dislike people with horrible skin like that.

Dogs sense with their smell more then any other sense, bats use sound, human beings use sight. Therefor our eyes our are first impression and usually what sense we trust the most. When I see someone who has a symptom of a life style i loath (over weight, nasty open sores and acne all over their body) then I naturally assume that's how they live. Drug addiction is something you can change, your weight is something you can change, your gender or race is not.

[Dempig]

Hamad , your mother.

[Agrul]

A) Assumptions are retarded. It suits your whole false sense of maturity, though. Hard to be condescending to people you hardly know without making an assload of inferences you're ridiculously underqualified to make.

B) Drugs and weight are two different things, and the former addiction's typically far more under one's control than the latter, where in genetics etc. can come into play.

Despite the differences, though, there are a few similarities. Amongst those... that I'm not going to dislike someone simply because they do drugs.

If I were to dislike people that make different choices from myself, I'd hate every other person I ran into as they shoved another tobacco-ridden cigarette up their snout - and people like you, for simply drinking alchohol.

Meth's obviously a more severe abuse (than alcohol, anyways~).. but it's their body, fuck if I care. Until they prove to me they can't control themselves around myself or others because of the substance, I really don't give a shit.

Honestly, smoking's problem the only truly common abuse I can name that I might honestly dislike someone for using ... because it effects me, too. I never intend to smoke - I'd like to avoid smoking your smoke, too~

But whatever you do to your body is your choice. If I disagree with it, I may try to convince you it's wrong, but I wouldn't hold the decision itself against you. Though I'd certainly hold you equally accountable for your actions despite the substance, and if you can't control those.. then I've grounds to tell you to fuck off.

Maybe I'm just too unassuming - but I still find your judgemental attitude quite revolting.

Agrul

[Genaside]

Agrul why do you comment on drug/alcohol abuse and which is better or worse when you have no clue on wtf you're talking about? Also what do you really know about minorities and how they act unless you grew up in their environment? And no that doesn't mean having 3 black guys in your school.

Stick to talking about bards because you look pretty ignorant arguing the pros and cons of things you've had zero experience with.

One day you will come to realize that spewing out 2nd and 3rd hand info you gain from minority controlled news outlets (all mainstream media) makes you look retarded. Untill then you'll be the person sponsering the million man march while deeming someone a racist bigot for saying white power.

[Apollyon]

minorities are poor for 3 simple reasons.

1 ) there not suposed to be here

2 ) there lazy

3 ) there not respectable people ( ignorant )

A good example of this was about 2 weeks ago when i was in the video game store, and some nigger gangbanger was in there getting interviewed with his pants half off his ass, a bandana on his head and another in his pocket. Now ask yourself honestly, would you hire that peice of ignorant shit? Fuck no you wouldn't.
Im 20 years old about to start a second job, why? because i need money and i know what i have to do to get ahead in life and its sure not gonna be gangbanging and shooting at each other then blaming society for my ignorance. So go ahead and keep spewing out your textbook bullshit, one day you will come to realize reality.

p.s its not just minorites its all poor and ignorant people in general i hate. Anyone can get a job, pay bills, have nice things, but poor people like to buy drugs and do stupid shit and always blame it on someone else.

[AD Nnuk]

"1 ) there not suposed to be here"

Yeah!

Damn immigrants coming to our country... Raping our women.. Killing our sons... Desecrating our sacred burrial grounds... Stealing our lands and throwing a few bead necklaces at us -- Who the fuck do they think they are?


"2 ) there lazy"

As opposed to hard working folks who are soooooo busy that even taking a moment to proofread what is supposed to be a hard-hitting political statement is impossible.


"3 ) there not respectable people ( ignorant )"

That one can stand on it's own merit. /boggle


"ignorant people in general i hate"

Well I can't argue with you their... Um... They're... I mean... uh... Dair?

Artfully Yours,

Nnuk
Master of the Arts
Artful Death Gallery (http://www.artfuldeath.com)

[Lovaelihn]

lol...

:D

[Genaside]

A Canadian comments on the minority situation in america.....

Hi Nnuk, theres no black people or mexicans in canada why are you talking?? :(((

[AD Nnuk]

"A Canadian comments on the minority situation in america....."

And with more credibility/accuracy than most comments hailing from the good old US of A -- Guess that means I'm indirectly commenting on the state of the educational system there as well, eh? ;-)


"Hi Nnuk, theres no black people or mexicans in canada....."

How true... But I've seen colored folks on TV and I've watched a lot of Cheech&Chong flicks.

[rolls eyes]


"..... why are you talking?? (("

Because I want to.. I can.. And there isn't a damn thing you -- or anybody else -- can do to stop me.

So tell me, Mr Apple Pie... Were your ancestors on the Mayflower?

Pfffft!

Artfully Yours,

Nnuk
Master of the Arts
Artful Death Gallery (http://www.artfuldeath.com)

[Hamadryad]

Genaside you're so ignorant, heh.

-Hamadryad
Artist of Death

[Agrul]

Let's play the experience card, Genaside.

You're 21, act 17, and think you're 50.

I'm 16, act 30, and think I'm 50.

If anything, I'd say you're every bit at fault for that as I - with Rhainy going beyond either.

A bit defensive, are we? I'm sorry if I don't personally drink, or take any hatred of addicted individuals to ridiculous levels. And that my only problem with any substance abuse is how it effects a person's actions. But that's my stance on it. Why do you talk when you have no idea wtf you're talking about? I know, I'll just say that every time you post from now on - because, clearly, it's the perfect argument.

We're not discussing minorities. If you want to continue that, feel free to respond to the last post I made on it. I'm not going to answer random bullshit I've already answered multiple times.

One day you'll realize little to none of what I'm saying need come from any particular source - it's common sense. Race doesn't determine how one acts - a number of more pertinent (living conditions, substance.. why exactly do I have to go over this again?) factors do. Race contributes to that, as racism is quite prevalent in many parts of the world - and the result is your statistics. Quite accurate if you're given no more information on the target population, but not-so when you can judge by the aforementioned more-relevant information instead.

I didn't call you a KKK member for pointing that out - in fact, to some extent, I agreed with you. Just not completely - as you're not completely correct.

Last post on the race issue as long as you intend to troll instead of think. Telling the other guy he doesn't know what he's talking about has never been a terribly successful tactic, sorry =/ .

Agrul

Edit: Apollyan, you are, in fact, a moron. Just thought I'd thank you for confirming that. Again.

[Apollyon]

said the 16 year old who prolly lives in the upper part of town. Keep finding excuses for em though agrul, they seem to be running out.

[Darwoth]

well i wasnt going to bother with this thread despite saying id get back to it several times because arguing with people whove been brainwashed by the political correctness found in all facets of society gives me a headache after a short time, but ill will now attempt to make a comprehensive statement regarding my point of view on most of the opinions said so far.

first of all, although many people consider me racist i do not consider myself so, rather i consider myself a realist with realistic outlooks ive gained through my own personal experiences and those of others.

additionally i am not afraid of being labeled a "racist" or "bigot" by the uninformed for many reasons not the least of which is my lack of caring what the opinion of a brainwashed PC drone is regarding my own outlooks.

black people:

first of all people outside of the united states that dont frequent the united states in a "culturally diverse" (read cesspool) or even the united states in general may have well intentioned viewpoints but they are by no means grounded in reality whatsoever, someone from europe commenting on american black people is like me commenting on rocks on the moon or something equally unknown. they are by no means the same and until you spend some time around the ones in our country, specifically in an area with a large number of them you will NEVER grasp what it is myself and people like myself speak of when referring to them.

i dont like most blacks i come into contact with, i dont dislike them for the color of their skin i dislike them for their mannerism and attitude and general demeanor, especially black males.

i have yet to meet one black person anywhere who did not believe he was "owed" something by white people to some degree, be this in the form of special laws to cater to blacks, special programs, affirmative action, reparations or any of a host of other things they are equally not entitled to.

there are many types of niggers, i will examine the most common two.

most black males i come across fit into the nigger #1 category, these are of the ghetto banger variety with pants half off the ass, ebonics speaking, kill whitey music blasting assholes that are simply walking on the street looking for victims between prison sentences while collecting numerous welfare checks paid for by mine and yours taxes, im sick of 40% of my money being stolen from me under government sanctioned robbery to help pay for these pieces of shit.

then there is the nigger #2 category which contains the likes of people like jesse jackson, lois farakhan and other educated, but anti white "you B owes us n sheeit" assholes who everytime they dont get their way, no matter how outrageous their DEMANDS were scream racism and organize huge marches against some small time establishment to get their goals across (it is easy to have large turnouts when all of the people your arguing for dont fucking have jobs)

both categorys have a game they like to play when they spot whites, how many times have you been in a populated area and walk past a black guy and he tries to STARE YOU DOWN as you walk past trying to make you look away? it seems every fucking time i go ANYWHERE i end up in a half dozen of these fucking staring contests, sure i could slink away like a fucking pacifist like everyone else but im TIRED of white people being such fucking PUSSIES about everything, i seriously feel like cracking a motherfuckers head open if i go to a shopping mall for more than an hour of having to deal with these slime bags and the sheep that enable them.

now, almost all american black "men" fit into one of these two categorys, to deny this is simply ridiculous and speaks volumes that you dont know many if any american black people.


i am also VERY VERY VERY sick of the double standard that i touched on in an earlier post, it is perfectly acceptable for blacks to shit all over white people at every opportunity but if a white guy returns even a fraction of that he is instantly shunned by everyone including other white people, this is how ridiculous things have gotten. you can have a room of half white guys and half black guys and some black guy starts hardcore making fun of white people and everybody laughs and thinks its the funniest shit in the world, then take those roles and reverse it with a white guy and suddenly he is fucking hitler or some shit, its ridiculous.

blacks are the most "racist" ethnic group in this country but that goes overlooked.

the argument of "oh its because their poor bla bla fucking bla" is absolute bullshit, i grew up from 11 - 18 in an area that was almost all white and half the people were dirtpoor many of which porrer than the average ghetto nigger, there was virtually NO crime except for the occasional pot grower and petty larceny, about the worst it got would be a rare fistfight between two guys who had to much to drink, and they would shake hands the next day, not come back and "bus a cap yo".

and lastly the whole racial profiling and blacks are not predisposed to crime more than anyone else etc etc arguement.

yes, racial profiling is effective and does work, it might not be politically correct, and the 1 in a 1000 25 year old black guy with a doo rag on his head blasting rap music driving around in a brand new 60 grand car that he got legit might be offended, but the other 999 stole it and are on the way to the chop shop, why do police not racially profile whites or asians or any other ethnic group besides blacks (and to a much lesser extent mexicans)? did all the police departments across the country just fucking wake up one day and say "oh lets go harass some young upstanding misunderstood product of their environment negroes today!"

i dont think so.

yes, blacks are more prone to rape, rob, steal, kill, sell dope and every other low class crime. the amount of melanin in their skin is not what makes them do it, their culture is what makes them do it, black america is awach in the "thug 4 life brotha" mentality and you can see this clear as day if you actually make an effort to look.

also, i am 21 years old now, when i was about 15 i had the SAME viewpoints as agrul did on races and "racism" that i was indoctrinated with in the schools and TV, then i grew up and moved outside the limits of my own neighborhood and experienced the real world.

of these experiences a few of the highpoints were when......

a nigger pulled a gun on me, i assume to rob me, and i stabbed him in the chest spending approximately 6 months between a juvenille facility and adult county jail at 16 years old while waiting for a bond then spending the next year in an out of court.

countless altercations with niggers over trivial things, i can remember my first of these i was again 15 years old and i was shopping alone with my mother and we were pulling into a parking space. siuddenly from across the other end of the parking lot approximately 100 yeards away a lexus with a purple light license plate frame comes speeding up to us and a typical black 10inch long fingernails 2 foot hair extension latiqua shaniqua gets out screaming at the top of her lungs hurling obscenities while her boyfriend whom was about 30 spoke of kicking my ass.
so many incidents just like this one have occured it is impossible to guess the number.


and of course the almost daily stare down game.

ive had dozens of black friends overs the years, all but one stole from me or betrayed me in some way, the one that didnt was half white and grew up with a white father and he fit ionto the nigger #2 category.

in short if you wish to be an apologist for a substandard segment of society go for it, and if you wish to label myself and others as racists and bigots because we choose not to that is at your perogative to, *shrug* myself however will continue to see things in a realistic light unhindered by political correctness.



continued........

[Darwoth]

now on to mexicans:

first of all i have very little problems with hispanics, most are hardworking and family oriented and generally a contributing upstanding portion of society.

what i have a HUGE problem with are MEXICANS, i CANT STAND the fact that there are over 20 million ILLEGAL MEXICAN IMMIGRANTS shitting up my fucking country!

these ILLEGAL MEXICAN IMMIGRANTS are overrunning the southwest and these MEXICANS are much different than most HISPANICS in that the MEXICANS are just as bad as the NIGGERS.

the MEXICAN segment of the countries population, which has no business here to begin with makes up the second largest criminal bracket, admittedly nowhere near that of blacks, but second largest nonetheless.

i dislike MEXICANS for all the reasons i dislike NIGGERS with the addition of a few reasons.

1> they dont speak english, i can actually feel my blood warm by a few degrees every single time i run into someone who doesnt fucking speak english and is living in my country. this includes the people at the burger king drivethrough who eventhough they are not out robbing and pillaging still have no business in my fucking country to begin with.

2> thanks to laws in the southwest passed by "hispanic" (mexican") legislators there are MANY MANY loopholes (aside from the huge mexican mafia run false identification racket that generates fresh SSN#s) that allow MEXICANS to vote in our elections, who do they vote for when they get to vote? they vote for DEMOCRATS who in addition to ruining the country via destroying the constitution at every opportunity want to keep giving them my money in the form of countless government aid programs and welfare, and "relaxed" immigration laws so pepe tito and andale can swim on over to.

hell when young gloria pendejo gets pregnant in ol mehico and jumps across the border at 8 and a half months and shits out her baby on our side of the rio grande that baby is now an american citizen, who then grows up and marries someone from the "village" who then gets devorced and they both "marry" someone from the village ad nauseum.

and we wont even touch on the huge mexican movement known as aztlan that is plotting to take over the southwest, the first step in their plan is to saturate the area with mexicans. the silent invasion continues.

in short i dont dislike hispanics (americans) anymore than anyone else, but i fucking HATE MEXICANS, the united states is like a sponge, there is only so much it can absorb before it sinks and we are rapidly approaching that saturation level.



drug addicts:

i hate drug addicts, there is a difference between a recreational drug user and a drug addict. i myself have never taken drugs and never will, but i dont mind responsible drug users who can keep it to themselves in their own home. drug addicts who end up walking the streets looking for something to rip off for their fix are wrothless garbage that i would just as soon shoot as give the time of day. recreational drug users who hop into their car and crach into and kill someone (someone i knew was killed this way) or otherwise endanger innocents are equally worthless.


ugliness vs non ugliness etc.:

i enjoy good looks on women just like any heterosexual male, but i dont shun ugly people, seriosuly one of the most awesome girls i ever met was about 40 pounds overweight with braces but she was so cool and her personality was so refreshing from the daily bullshit that it really didnt matter at all, i was resigned to just being good friends with her though because i was not attracted to her, but my point is i dont shit on people who are less than what i consider ideal appearances,nobody is making you fuck them so why be a dickhead? =P

[Agrul]

Let's kick those damned immigrants out of our country Apollyan!

While we're at it, maybe we can ask the native Americans if they'd like their country back ~_~ .

Edit: Woops! I should clarify - everything below this is addressed to Darwoth, and a little to Genaside and Darwoth.

Skimming through it a bit, I see more I agree with than I disagree with - again - but for some reason you both insist on ignoring everything we see eye to eye on, and pretending I'm some brainwashed fool because I disagree on .. say, race causing a person to commit crimes.

Statistics don't prove that - they prove countless things, and even that some races commit more crimes than others on average, but in no way attempt to or pull off determining the 'why.'

That's my argument with Genaside. Where exactly the "OMFG UR A RACUIST BASTARD UNHOLY SPAWN OF HELL" message came from, I'll never know - but I'm sure the voices have let you know 8/ .

You do have a few irritating views - for instance, that English is the law of the land and all should speak it (though I agree that setting down some form of national language would be best, welcome to American.. land of the translator~), or that this is somehow more your country than anyone else's whose able to call themselves a citizen.

The generalizations aren't necessarily racist - statistics can prove most of them. Assuming the individuals involved do what they do purely and simply because of their skin color is, and is quite ridiculous.

Anyways.. I'm not reading the entirety of that, since for the guy that likes to pretend everyone else is brainwashed, you have yet to actually respond to anything I've said, and act more like a stubborn, automated puppet yourself than you should - and besides that, it's fucking long.

Agrul

[Aioros Durden]

omg, I'mma gonna get in this conversation

1) I'm part of the minority (mexican)

2) I'm rich because my family works in government in Mexico

3) Corruption in Mexico = teh best

4) I'm the U.S. of A. cuz I like people, well okay, actually cuz I was partying to much in Mexico that I got kicked out of the 2 best colleges there so I really want to get my degree so I'm actually studying now :p

5) Not everybody in the minority is poor, actually the only minority that are poor are the ones that come with no education from small towns/farms in hispanic countries

6) As soon as I get my degree I'mma head home get my reward for actually studying (my new BMW M5 or which ever is the new one when I graduate ^______________________________^)

7) Teh U.S. of A. is made ouf of immigrants!!! Only natives americans should have the right to talk of this country as their country! Y'all are lucky they are nice and peaceful people, but what the U.S. of A. did to the Indians is the same shit teh Nazis tried to do to the Jewish people

8) THIS THREAD IS OVER!!!!!! WHAT PART DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND OF THREAD OVER?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Darwoth]

the entirety of my post was not addressed at you agrul it was a broad post designed to reply to the most prevalent arguments going on here, i believe i stated that somewhere in there.

i didnt say someons race CAUSES them to commit crimes, i am saying that if you are stolen from, robbed, shot, wife or girlfriend raped etc. chances are its a black guy that will do it, ive stated why i think this is and the amount of pigment in the skin is not the issue rather the culture of black america but i went over that as well.


your god damned right kick the immigrants out, yeah you can use the whole "america was founded by immigrants" all you want, those immigrants also are the ones that built the god damn country, immigrants today are leaving their country that they already fucked up for themselves and invading ours to get a free ride sorry not quite the same thing buddy.

i again refer to my sponge analogy.



mexican citizens have no business in the united states for anything other than visiting as far as im concerned, or in the case of schooling THEY should be paying for it, which is usually NOT the case and it sickens me to the core that they are here.

get rid of english and make "american"? wtf, english IS the american language just because some fucking boat people and border jumpers have been accumulating like a toilet clog in our cities the past decade doesnt change that, sorry but the entire fucking country does not need to assimilate themselves to accomodate our new "guests" that should not be here in the first place.

[Darwoth]

I come for visit, get treated regal,
So I stay, who care I illegal?

I cross border, poor and broke,
Take bus, see employment folk.

Nice man treat me good in there,
Say I need to see welfare.

Welfare say, "You come no more,
We send cash right to door."

Welfare checks, they make you wealthy,
Medicaid it keep you healthy!

By and by, I got plenty money,
Thanks to you, American dummy.

Write to friends in motherland,
Tell them come fast as you can.

They come in rags and Chebby trucks,
I buy big house with welfare bucks.

They come here, we live together,
More welfare checks, it get better!
Fourteen families they moving in,
But neighbor patience wearing thin.

Finally, white guy move away,
Now I buy his house, and then I say,
"Find more aliens for house to rent."
And in the yard I put a tent. Send for family (they just trash),
But they, too, draw the welfare cash!

Everything mucho good,
And soon we own all neighborhood.

We have hobby--itcalled breeding,
Welfare pay for baby feeding.
Kid need dentist? Wife need pill?
We get free! We got no bill!

American crazy! He pay all year
To keep welfare running here.

We think America darn good place!
Too darn good for white man race.

If they no like us, they can go,
Got lot of room in Mexico.

[Agrul]

"the entirety of my post was not addressed at you agrul it was a broad post designed to reply to the most prevalent arguments going on here, i believe i stated that somewhere in there."

You might have.. like I said, didn't pay that much attention to it. I do recall you mentioning me as the example of a "brainwashed 15-year-old," and considering you're far more narrow-minded than I - or at least demonstrating your stubborn side on this particular thread - I take issue with that.

"i didnt say someons race CAUSES them to commit crimes, i am saying that if you are stolen from, robbed, shot, wife or girlfriend raped etc. chances are its a black guy that will do it, ive stated why i think this is and the amount of pigment in the skin is not the issue rather the culture of black america but i went over that as well. "

Yea, we've gone over that. In depth. Already agreed with the above - going to assume this wasn't directed at me.

"your god damned right kick the immigrants out, yeah you can use the whole "america was founded by immigrants" all you want, those immigrants also are the ones that built the god damn country, immigrants today are leaving their country that they already fucked up for themselves and invading ours to get a free ride sorry not quite the same thing buddy."

Don't be a hypocrit. Our ancestors building the country entitles us as much to it as blacks ancestors getting the shit beaten out of them entitles them to the aforementioned anti-white doublestandards. Neither's right.

"mexican citizens have no business in the united states for anything other than visiting as far as im concerned, or in the case of schooling THEY should be paying for it, which is usually NOT the case and it sickens me to the core that they are here."

I don't even remember what you designated 'mexican.' I seem to recall you planting some bizarre definition to it.. anyways, if you're saying the above in the same way you said 'immigrants have no right to be here!' - see above. No.

"get rid of english and make "american"? wtf, english IS the american language just because some fucking boat people and border jumpers have been accumulating like a toilet clog in our cities the past decade doesnt change that, sorry but the entire fucking country does not need to assimilate themselves to accomodate our new "guests" that should not be here in the first place."

Last I checked, I don't believe we had an official, national language. Feel free to provide a link disproving that - I may be recalling it wrong.

The 'entire fucking country' doesn't speak English. Just the ones that want their lives to be a helluva lot easier, or that were born into it. Granted that's a lot - but it's far from all. Some raw statistics would be interesting on this, actually. Maybe I'll look for some when I'm supposed to be doing my project later~

But until / unless English is considered - by someone more important than you.. you know, maybe the government - the national language, I don't really see the point in arguing it. Who are you to say what languages citizens need know? You just told them they shouldn't even be in the country, AFTER telling them *they* have no right to preach on about their ancestors' accomplishments.

Agrul

[Genaside]

"Assuming the individuals involved do what they do purely and simply because of their skin color is, and is quite ridiculous."

Don't think anyone said that. You're missing the point here. The *black american* culture is more likely to commit crime then any other majority or minority is what was said. Nothing about people with black skin color all over the world.

Have you grown up in an area where white people were the minority? No, you haven't. Have you lived in europe around non-american black people ever in your life? No, you haven't. I have.

So how are you going to tell me, darwoth, and countless others that we're wrong about their culture...when we've dealt with it all our lives. When on the other hand, you watched minority controlled television and listened to minority set school agendas for all your info?

People's opinions are respected when they've gathered them through experience, not 3rd hand info :(

edit: oh and there's a huge difference between illegal and legit immigrants. So don't even play that like it's the same. One comes here to live off welfare and democrat free rides, the other comes to get a job and work their way up like everyone else.

[Darwoth]

i dont why im wasting my time on this, i must be bored.

you are a brainwashed 15 (or 16?) year old, you are regurgitating the same bullshit verbatum fed to you everyday by the TV and the indoctrination centers called schools. you dont see it yet and thats ok, i didnt either when i was your age, but you will.


our ancestors building the country erases the whole "the country was founded by immigrants!" reasoning that pro mexican apologists use to support their argument that we should just open the floodgates and let all of mexico afix themselves to us like leeches.

mine and your ancestors came to america which was mostly empty.

they carved a country out of the wilderness, they fought and died to gain territory for said country, they then settled said territory and continued building the country there.

those are the immigrants that america was settled by.



now fast forward to today, immigrants are a bunch of people who already fucked their own country up, demonstrate they dont give a fuck about our laws by ignoring them in order to get here, dont bother to learn our language, and expect free handouts.

SORRY NOT QUITE THE SAME THING.



i love it when people throw the ridiculous "there is no official language!" crap out there because it is so stupid it almost makes me laugh. when 90% of a country speaks english, and the people whom settled the country speak english (and in the case of germans, french, dutch etc. that settled here who didnt they learned it) the country is an english speaking country, i dont see how this is up for debate.

so you are saying we should expect 90% of americans to abandon english and adopt a new "universal" language to accomodate a bunch of illegal immigrants who arent supposed to be here anyway? how ridiculous.


god yes, the corrupted politicians that are the cause of all this countrys ills are far more important than me and the rest of the "little people" nevermind that "for the people, by the people and of the people" vision of what america was supposed to be, i see you PC indoctrination is going along as scheduled, bow to your puppet masters like a good subject.

[Agrul]

You're 21. Your 'experience' amounts to jack and shit. Mine covers jack. Gratz?

You never blamed the culture, Genaside. Maybe if your head was out of your ass long enough to come up with a cogent argument you would have - but you didn't. He did.

And with that, I can agree. Blacks may not be the majority here, but there's plenty of whites that follow the 'black culture' quite religiously to make up for the absence.

edit: "oh and there's a huge difference between illegal and legit immigrants. So don't even play that like it's the same"

Of course there is. He didn't separate the two in "IMMIGANTS SHOULD LEAVE THE COUNTRY," though. He just said: "Immigrants should leave the country." Had he said illegal, I'd agree. The system's there for a reason ~

Double edit, for Darwoth:

You're a child. If I'm a brainwashed servant of the mainstream, you're a brainwashed servant of the oh-so natural rebellion against said mainstream.

I don't believe either - but hey, it works both ways. At least I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong - you just keep 'regurgitating verbatim' the same shit we went over last time.

I'm not a pro-mexican apologist, Darwoth. Pro-legal-immigration, though - and yes, some portion of our Mexican population falls under that.

"Our ancestors built the country!" doesn't erase shit. It's a weak, retarded crutch used by people that think what daddy did makes them a better person. Same goes for "This country was built by immigrants!" Who cares? Welcome to 2002, the revolution's over.

You don't *need* to argue for immigration - the world doesn't survive by separating itself from the rest of the world. We've opened the proper channels, and there's no reason to deny any particular ethnicity access to them.

60% of the whites I know are useless sacks of shit - most of which have decided they're black and quite closely imitate their culture. Should we ban them from the country? Yes! Er.. wait. No.

"now fast forward to today, immigrants are a bunch of people who already fucked their own country up, demonstrate they dont give a fuck about our laws by ignoring them in order to get here, dont bother to learn our language, and expect free handouts.

SORRY NOT QUITE THE SAME THING. "

That's nice. Immigration's a natural part of humanity - racial immersion's not a bad thing. Get over it.

Now, if you'd rather argue that we should deny access to those following some retarded lifestyle glamorizing 'gangstas' and showing off more than anything else, feel free to take the soap box - if you can convince anyone to go through the necessary steps to determine the above on an individual basis, and then convince everyone to go through with it, I'm all for it. Seems a little elitist - but great nation's aren't built on lazy, unmotivated, unhelpful fools.

"i love it when people throw the ridiculous "there is no official language!" crap out there because it is so stupid it almost makes me laugh. when 90% of a country speaks english, and the people whom settled the country speak english (and in the case of germans, french, dutch etc. that settled here who didnt they learned it) the country is an english speaking country, i dont see how this is up for debate. "

Well, there is no official language. A 21-year old rebel-puppet telling everyone on a messageboard there is doesn't really change that.

Should there be? Sure - would increase efficiency and communication. And yet, there isn't - since there isn't, it's fairly unreasonable to demand someone learn something when we seem of the stance that it's not a necessity for surviving and prospering in the country.

They're primarily holding themselves back, there - and until such a time as Spanish-speaking peoples are the majority, will continue to oppress themselves with their own ignorance.

I don't have a problem with that - my only problem would be ignoring their lingual disabilities when handing out jobs where they actually matter.. and if you'd like to argue about that, again, go right ahead. Different issue.

"so you are saying we should expect 90% of americans to abandon english and adopt a new "universal" language to accomodate a bunch of illegal immigrants who arent supposed to be here anyway? how ridiculous."

No, I'm saying it's alright as it is. I don't need the guy at the local McDonald's to know English - I'll go purchase my food elsewhere.

I'm also saying it would probably be a good idea to adopt English as the national language - it just isn't, yet. As is, I just see it as their own, personal problem - and should some retarded company hire an exclusively French-speaking individual in their customers relations department, who am I to whine? I'll just take my business elsewhere - my only problem with that is with the company that hired them, and under certain legal circumstances, whatever laws may have given them some added incentive to hire them.

"god yes, the corrupted politicians that are the cause of all this countrys ills are far more important than me and the rest of the "little people" nevermind that "for the people, by the people and of the people" vision of what america was supposed to be, i see you PC indoctrination is going along as scheduled, bow to your puppet masters like a good subject."

It's too bad your patriotic little quote ignores the simple fact that "the people" don't all speak English.

And yes, I'll continue to conduct "The national language is.." statements by the truth - that being that there is no national language, as you yourself have as much as admitted.

I'll conduct "The national language should be.." by my own personal feelings on the subject - that it should be English, and there should be more incentive to learn it than there is now, but not that it's any grounds for booting people out of the country. It won't kill you to have to listen to some guy ramble on in Spanish while you're trying to order your Happy Meal~

Though it might hurt their business. Their problem.

Agrul

[Darwoth]

well ive been on my own since shortly after turning 18, my experience during my adolescent years (your age) sounds as if it was far broader than yours as well, but thats ok to, i also thought i knew everything at your age, youll grow out of it and wake up to see how shit really is eventually, if you dont youll be a democrat.

[Darwoth]

i made it claer i was referring to illegals, had you bothered to read past the first 3 words youd no doubt have discovered that little tidbit.

[Genaside]

"You're 21. Your 'experience' amounts to jack and shit. Mine covers jack. Gratz?"

I've lived/visited 15+ countries on every continent cept australia and that freak ice one. I grew up partly in the city and partly in the ghetto. I now live in suburbia with those white kids who act black who you dare to compare to being the same as actual blacks. I've worked in fast food where I was the only white person, but I've also worked in an all white country club.

How about you Mr. I live in whitey land and listen to sarena asstchul tell me how to live my life on MTV news?

Try not to knock on your elders, maybe if you're not sheltered untill 35 you'll see the world in a few years too for how it is.

[Agrul]

I read a few descriptions of illegals - for instance, in your little poem. But that doesn't mean you necessarily meant illegal aliens specifically - you're both quite enamored of sweeping generalizations, who am I to assume you developed any amount of sense?

Given that, I agree. Illegal aliens don't belong.

However, regardless of what experience you think you have, you haven't learned a thing. You *still* think you know everything - a change in opinions on the issues, but no change concerning your own egotistical idiocy.

You missed the lesson entirely. Having an open-mind will ever be superior to being a narrow-minded fool. We're all ignorant of something - visiting umpteen countries in as many years doesn't change that.

That's nice, Genaside. I'm sure between when you had the opportunity to travel and your 21st birthday you had *plenty* of time to experience those continents - and, of course, each individual country.

Why, I'm quite certain some warped sense of time allowed you to spend the equivalent of a good 2 years in each, right? Thus explaining your oh-so worldly, condescending nature.

Or maybe you should reconsider your own opinion of yourself. Apparently you were both "brainwashed children" in your adolescent years - I somehow doubt staying a relatively short time in a relatively small amount of the world (though I've obviously stayed in less - thus "jack" to "jack and shit" - the analogy never claimed any amazing, worldly exploits, thank you.) has in any way helped you. Changed your views, perhaps - but you're still the brainwashed kid you pretend to have grown out of. Had you grown out of it, you wouldn't be so horribly narrow-minded at so young an age. Only one side of our little argument has begun branding the other "brainwashed fools" at the slightest hint of contention - and I assure you, it wasn't mine.

And again, I don't watch MTV, nor most shows in general. If I'm brainwashed, I did it to myself, thank you~

Oh, and responses to the two longer posts are edited into my last post~

Agrul


Edit: "I now live in suburbia with those white kids who act black who you dare to compare to being the same as actual blacks."

Haha, this is a keeper.

Damn me! I must have forgotten desire to build a 'cool' self-image, attitude, circle of friends is totally dependant upon race. There couldn't possibly be a ridiculous amount of whites following the aforementioned and obviously disliked 'black culture' - I mean, they're white, and totally infallable. Right?

[Genaside]

I don't know everything. What am I closed minded about? I'm friends and associate with all sorts of minorities. That doesn't mean I walk around blind to how the world works.

And fyi I've lived in 4 countries for a year or more and visited like 10 others. Have you ever left a 50 mile radius around your house? Doesn't sound like it.

And of course lots of white kids try to act black. TV makes it the coolest thing on earth and all the bimbo girls drool over it. So wtf you think the quickest way to snag a blowjob from a slut is these days? Shit you must be really sheltered :eek:

[Agrul]

Close-minded - branding anyone disagreeing with you (for instance, me, at any point beyond the .. oh, 3rd?.. post when I disagreed with you) a brainwashed fool.

Of course they act black. But obviously they're immune to the apparent downfalls of said culture, right?

Yes, fortunately, I've left the oh-so interesting area around my house. I've never left the country. I've neither the financial situation nor interest in doing so.

I have moved around a bit ("left the 50 foot radius") - born in Cali, living in Virginia now, a few other stops inbetween. Nowhere for very long - but then, I don't profess to know anything based on some overwhelmingly telling experience.

I don't remember what I was going to put here, thx aim, so I'll just stop there ^

Agrul

[Rhainy]

holy fuck I didn't read some of the novel sized posts but I'll go back and do that ;p I think it's funny in the middle of a debate Hama has to come in with her leet 4th grade name calling but gets offended if I try to point out her mentality.

Ok Agrul back to our debate~ I don't drink *anymore*, the parent was an alchoholic and I learned at a very young age that decisions you make *do* affect those around you. You think that destroying your body (be it through drugs or food addiction) is affection only the person doing it? I can't say you've had much experence in that aspect of life then.

My best friend was over weight, in fact her entire family was for generations as long as anyone could remember. But they had a habit of dying young due to heart problems and the like. Anna decided that for herself and those she cares about she was going to be healthy and she lost about 150 pounds in the time I've known her.

And you've obviously never met many druggies if you say you would not discriminate against them. Being friends with a tweaker is like saying yes please steal my stero/ car / computer and sell it for drugs.

Quitting drugs is alot harder then losing weight imo. Your body goes through nasty, horrible withdrawls. I know what it's like to be under an addiction, and I know how hard it is to quit.

I come from a family of very high honor and mental disipline (not counting the parent), so I have little respect for anyone who does not respect themselves enough to honor their body.

[Rhainy]

Ok I read the posts ;p

I agree with Darwoth about illegal imigrants. My family came to the country before I was born *legally*. My grandmother wanted a better life for her kids (japan is very male dominated society and not so good for single women as they are looked down apon). They worked for what they have, they've never been on welfare and they pay taxes, by all rights we are americans.

I live 30 mins from the border so as a result growing up in school and stuff alot of times I've been the only white girl. Schools are packed with so many non english speaking illegal mexicans it's not even funny. In my high school I was the *only* white person in all my classes, there was 1 black guy, me, and a ton of mexicans. Usually they don't speak english around you. They all called me "white girl" or "whitey" or "gringo". My high school didn't even have any elective classes. The school boards could not afford them because there were too many illegals not paying taxes, living off welfare and clogging up our schools.

My point is it's fucked that the quality of life for legal citizens of the country need suffer and bend over backwards to accomodate the needs of illegals who don't give a fuck about us or our country.

edited one little letter for that one guy no one likes~

[DArkfrost187]

Its fucked up that a white girl thats hate "illigals" can't even spell illegals right.

[Rhainy]

Admitedly I do not spell so well in romaji (english character) but I spell flawlessly in all 3 japanese alphabets, which I'm sure is more then you can claim.

Wait I'll even correct the one little letter for the anal fuck. In japanese if you miss one letter you could have a whole new word or sentance, in english the point still gets across just fine. People just like to be spelling nazis~

[Darwoth]

bleh im done, ive said my piece and the counter points are just regurgitated crap that ive already dispelled a few times that are not worth answering for the 3rd or 4th time, (ie: come up with something original)

you will grow up one day, and when you do it is likely you will see things the way they are, until then its a waste of time to argue with someone who has absolutely no first hand experience with the real world about things he has no experience with.

[Aioros Durden]

well ive been on my own since shortly after turning 18, my experience during my adolescent years (your age) sounds as if it was far broader than yours as well, but thats ok to, i also thought i knew everything at your age, youll grow out of it and wake up to see how shit really is eventually, if you dont youll be a democrat.

LOLOLOSDHF;LASDH;ASDL;FJ

Darthwowhatever, if you actually were in view on what's happening in your country (at least reading the news), You'd know that the Republicans protect the illegal immigrants more than the Democrats (hihi, Bush)

Rhainy, first you claimed to be a jap person then you say you're white.
Omg, welcome to reality people, you were born in the U.S. of A. means you're a dumb American like the rest :p

Reality is that if you weren't born in the original country, YOU'RE NOT PART OF THAT COUNTRY!

I specially Hate(TM) Mexican/Americans that claim to know my country better than me and then proudly claim to be Americans, hihi hypocrits!

Point is, the States its the way it is cuz the U.S. of A. can't survive without immigrants. Even in Mexico we have tighter rules against illegal people from Central America coming into Mexico.
If the U.S. of A. doesn't do anything about the illegal immigrants its because then all the other countries will take similar actions against the U.S. of A. regarding businesses getting into their countries and fuck up the U.S. of A.

It's all business, learn to live with it :D

p.s. And I still think Americans are Nazis for what they did to the Native Americans, freaking savages :p

[Aioros Durden]

THIS THREAD IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Luko]

than listening to a "musician freak" spouting on about politics.

But on your topic~

"Reality is that if you weren't born in the original country, YOU'RE NOT PART OF THAT COUNTRY!

I specially Hate(TM) Mexican/Americans that claim to know my country better than me and then proudly claim to be Americans, hihi hypocrits! "

Wow!

Ding! You have reached a new level of stupidity. Just keep talking.

Reality is , most naturalized immigrants DO know our country better than us, as they need to pass naturalization tests that average MUCH higher than the social studied equiv. standard that WE don't even pass in our public schools.

Just please shut the fuck up. Do your family a favor.

[Darwoth]

god this is so incoherent i dont even know how to respond because i cant figure out what your trying to say.

did you just bang your head on the keyboard to shit that out?
or did you simply have to much tequila and hot sauce this AM mr essay pendejo?

"LOLOLOSDHF;LASDH;ASDL;FJ

Darthwowhatever, if you actually were in view on what's happening in your country (at least reading the news), You'd know that the Republicans protect the illegal immigrants more than the Democrats (hihi, Bush)"

the handle i use here and in other games is "darwoth", see how it is neatly spelled out in the left side of the screen? or are you trying to pose as "cool" by intentionally mispelling it? what a fucking idiot.

please enlighten me as to how....

1> the republicans protect illegal immigrants more than democrats when virtually every anti immigration politician is republican.

2> how bush and is actions are representative of the entire republican party.

3> why border jumpers continue to vote democrat instead of republican if republicans "portect them more"


"Point is, the States its the way it is cuz the U.S. of A. can't survive without immigrants. Even in Mexico we have tighter rules against illegal people from Central America coming into Mexico.
If the U.S. of A. doesn't do anything about the illegal immigrants its because then all the other countries will take similar actions against the U.S. of A. regarding businesses getting into their countries and fuck up the U.S. of A.

It's all business, learn to live with it"

please tell me how it is we need a bunch of illegal wetbacks bogging down our country sucking up tax dollars?

i wont even comment on the "its all business man" portion of your spiel because its a rambling clusterfuck and makes no sense.

are you attempting to say that our immigration laws our influenced because a handful of third world shitholes would in turn make it tougher for US citizens to immigrate to their countries? when was the last time i boatload of US citizens ended up in your country?

p.s. And I still think Americans are Nazis for what they did to the Native Americans, freaking savages "

everyone cares that a mexican national here leeching off of the american education system thinks that we are "nazis", really.

i mean hell i must of nailed a few dozen redskins back in the 1800s how about you genaside? i wont criticize my ancestors for their actions either, countries are won by conquest and thats the way it always has been and always will be.

[Scylla]

Hi guys.

Retired Scylla

[Agrul]

"Ok Agrul back to our debate~ I don't drink *anymore*, the parent was an alchoholic and I learned at a very young age that decisions you make *do* affect those around you. You think that destroying your body (be it through drugs or food addiction) is affection only the person doing it? I can't say you've had much experence in that aspect of life then. "

Destroying your body affects two individuals directly, giving them no choice in the matter - yourself and your 'partner.' At which point, it's between the two of you.

Now, friends and family may try to "help" you as they perceive necessary, and cause themselves significant mental anguish over the subject; this is their fault, but all the same, *if* you have a collection of caring individuals about you, as many do, and they're terribly worried about your declining physical state, then I'd expect you to do something about it.

That's a big if - and changes greatly between gaining weight (people aren't going to cry themselves to sleep because you gained a few pounds~) and doing drugs (natural society-supported phobias kind of lend themselves to freaking out if you discover one of your relatives is doing drug_xyz~).

Destroying your mind, however, certainly isn't limited to yourself.

Your mind controls your body - this changes your actions, and affects everyone around you, without their consent, across the board.

There's a line between the two, of course. Hurting (thinking emotionally here, but I guess physically would work, too) your friends and family because of your declining mental stability, and your probably very defensive response to attempts to get you 'help' mostly certainly hurts more than yourself. But I blame that on your inability to cope with the substance and retain your usual mental state - and then I'd dislike someone for it. If you can't control it, don't use it.

And cut the experience bullshit. You fools are so absolutely obsessed with that it's sad.

A) You're 21. You have no experience.
B) If you had experience, you wouldn't fling it about as if it were an argument in and of itself. Experience should mean you're capable of hosting a cogent argument, not you're right just because you want to be.

"My best friend was over weight, in fact her entire family was for generations as long as anyone could remember. But they had a habit of dying young due to heart problems and the like. Anna decided that for herself and those she cares about she was going to be healthy and she lost about 150 pounds in the time I've known her."

Good for Anna. I never said it was impossible.

"And you've obviously never met many druggies if you say you would not discriminate against them. Being friends with a tweaker is like saying yes please steal my stero/ car / computer and sell it for drugs."

There's a difference between the druggies you instantly assosciate the term with and those able to control it. Those able to control it just happen to be few and far between. I'd certainly be wary of anyone abusing a substance I doubted they could control - but I wouldn't instantly assume they're like everyone else.. judgements are to be made after the fact~

"Quitting drugs is alot harder then losing weight imo. Your body goes through nasty, horrible withdrawls. I know what it's like to be under an addiction, and I know how hard it is to quit. "

Proving I should hate you. Drug using bitch.

Er, I mean - yes, quitting drugs is harder. But on the flip side, resisting the urge to start isn't. Weight's a constant problem for many people - something they have to fight day in and day out. Drugs are only that way if you chose to style your life that way.

"I come from a family of very high honor and mental disipline (not counting the parent), so I have little respect for anyone who does not respect themselves enough to honor their body."

Shrug, not everyone's interested in their personal appearance. That, more than anything - more than any excuse / reason I could give for a person's weight - you need to understand.

Respecting yourself doesn't necessarily mean aspiring to some universal view of the perfect, healthy human specimen.

And personally, I have very little respect for someone that can't understand that. Mental discipline's nice - mental flexibility would be better.

Of course, all of that's ignoring the simple fact that perfectly healthy individuals need not always have perfect appearances to match. Just doesn't work that way.

Agrul

[Genaside]

"You're 21. You have no experience"

Get to 21 then say that...*newbie*

I've done more in the last 4 years of my life then if I lived to be age 15 another 30 years.

[Agrul]

And look how much it taught you.

I mean, you even learned how to tell other people they're wrong and you're right, simply because you have experience!

Right?

Agrul

[Rhainy]

Proving I should hate you. Drug using bitch.

Yeah I said I know how hard it is to quit as in I did quit and therefor I see no reason why someone else can't.

Please try to tell me that gaining weight does not affect a person mentally. Alot of depressed people use food as a vice, then being heavier makes them more depressed which makes them eat more, which.. etc

Admitedly I've never had a problem with my weight but I've be