How many of your that are of legal age plan to vote tomorrow?

[Mawwle]

In many respects the vote tomorrow is more important than the presidential one a couple of years ago, yet less than half of the eligable voters will actually show up.

Anyway, here is some last minute campaigning. :)

Read this http://www.boortz.com/demsecrets.htm

And this........

THIS MORNING….

…. You’ll hear Republican Senatorial Candidate Saxby Chambliss on the first full hour of the show. Democrat Max Cleland was invited to participate, but his staff said he wasn’t interested in appearing. Hey, we tried to be fair. The door is open if Max wants to come on by.

DEMOCRATS MOST SUITED TO HANDLE ECONOMY?

That’s what the latest Zogby poll says. More people think that the Democrats are suited to handle our economy than Republicans.

Let’s try to noodle this one out. Easy enough, we just compare the Republican and the Democratic economic plans.

First the Democrats. Here’s what they want to do.

Send huge amounts of federal money to the states to create more government jobs at the local level. Government jobs. Government union jobs.
Write checks to “taxpayers” who don’t actually pay income taxes.
Increase the minimum wage. This has the effect of automatically increasing wages for many unions members who’s wages are indexed to the minimum wage.
Extend unemployment benefits, thus making it easier for unemployed workers to delay going back to work.
Give wrinkled citizens free prescription drugs.
No permanent tax cut for upper income taxpayers.
Eliminate any future tax cuts for upper income taxpayers.
Now, the Republican economic plan.

Increase the contribution limits for 401K retirement plans.
Increase the contribution limits for IRA accounts.
Increase the tax deduction for capital losses.
Make tax cuts permanent for all income levels, including the high-achievers who actually create and provide jobs.
Cut capital gains taxes, allowing people to keep more of the money they earn by investing.
Eliminate double taxation of corporate profits. First the corporation pays taxes on the profit. Then the shareholders pay taxes on the profits distributed to them as dividends. The US is the only country that does this.
Even though many of you went to government schools … perhaps you can see the essential differences between these two plans. If not, read them again and take a few moments to do some serious pondering.

It’s just this easy: The Democrats economic plan is to take as much money as they can from the top 30% of taxpayers and transfer that money to the bottom 70% of taxpayers through straight income redistribution, free drugs, raises for people who have not earned them and about 13 more unemployment checks for those who would like to delay going back to work for a few more months. Also .. the Democrats will stroke the envy of the great unwashed by bashing the evil, greedy rich with more confiscatory taxes.

The Republican plan? Let people invest more of THEIR money in THEIR retirement plans. Let people deduct a reasonable amount on their tax returns for capital losses. Encourage investments in businesses and jobs by actually allowing those who do risk their own funds in the investment market to keep more of the money they earn. Basically, it boils down to this. Leave some more money in the hands of the people who will actually use that money to expand commerce and create jobs, rather than buy cigarettes and beer.

It’s all a numbers game. The Democrat plan puts more money in the pockets of a majority of Americans .. money they didn’t earn … money that is taken from someone else – more specifically, the evil rich. In return, this same majority of Americans who are the beneficiaries of plunder tell the pollsters that they think the Democratic plans for the economy are really pretty swell. No wonder the polls show majority support for the Democratic Plan for Plunder.

Neal Boortz

[Bozer]

What you said seems to have a republican slant.. you lean to the right I suspect, which is cool.
However, the rich tend to save money and the poor tend to spend it. Anyone with a background in economics can agree with this. By redistributing income to the bottom stratum of society we are stimulating economic activity. How?
Poor joe blow who makes under 20k a year will spend 95% or more of his income on bills, luxuries and that 12 pack of beer we all enjoy so much.
Richie Rich on the other hand will spend around 10% of his income on bills and luxuries and in general the rest of his net worth sits in land and stock holdings, which does not stimulate economic activity per se.
Thus by giving the poor people who spend virtually all their income more money to spend.. we stimulate the economy. This creates jobs, and jobs are an issue that the republicans have wisely sidestepped in the political arena.

Of course the democrats have messed up big time by attacking the Iraq issue instead of the economy. And I suspect it will cost them control of the house at least.. maybe even the sena

[Mawwle]

However, the rich tend to save money and the poor tend to spend it. Anyone with a background in economics can agree with this. By redistributing income to the bottom stratum of society we are stimulating economic activity. How? Poor joe blow who makes under 20k a year will spend 95% or more of his income on bills, luxuries and that 12 pack of beer we all enjoy so much.Richie Rich on the other hand will spend around 10% of his income on bills and luxuries and in general the rest of his net worth sits in land and stock holdings, which does not stimulate economic activity per se.

Ahh, another falicy often spouted by the democrats and readily believed by the weak minded sheeple that make up the masses of our population.

Joe makes 500 bucks this week, and he buys a 12 pack, a carton of cigarettes, and 2 monster truck racing tickets. I am in perfect agreement that this stimulates the economy, and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out how.

Bill on the other hand makes 3500 bucks this week. He takes 500 and pays his bills, and take sthe remaining 3000 and puts it into a stock, or savings bond of some type where it just disappears from the economy , ceases to exsist, has absolutly no effect whatsoever on the economy right? Well I am sure you could get just about every single democratic polotician to agree with this, but it is far from the truth.
Lets say he puts that money into a stock, the company he bought the stock from now has an extra 3000 dollars to expand the business(which means hiring more employees, buying more equipment). In buying more equipment, the company providing the equipment must now expand to keep up with the demand which means they hire more employees ect ect ect....

But what if he just puts it in the bank? Well, if he puts it in a safety deposit box and lets it sit there, you got me. But i dont know of many millionaire's that got that way by letting millions of dollars sit in a safety deposit box. Even in a lowly savings account that money is earning interest... why??? because the bank now takes that money and invests it themselves. Sometimes in personal loans or mortgages, sometimes in other companies. The people using this "evil rich persons'" money will buy a house, a car, furnature, or whatever. ALL OF WHICH stimulates the economy.

Some things have been uttered for so long by those that wish to do nothing for those of us that actually pull our own weight, that they are now simply accepted as truths to many. Most of these things are defeated so easily i truly wonder how they have continued as long as they have.

So in conclusion, Low achievers spend their money and stimulate the economy. High achievers invest their money and stimulate the economy. Basically it all comes down to wether or not you believe it is right to take money from the people who earned it and give it to those who did not earn it.

Mawwle

[Mawwle]

"Politicians never accuse you of 'greed' for wanting other people's money --- only for wanting to keep your own money." (Joseph Sobran)

[Valkar D'Abhor]

im going to go with what i originally read in that quote mawwle, and say that yes, Joseph Stalin really wasnt a bad guy after all 8^)

[Meat]

The Democrats should rename their party the National Socialists.

[Stoffer]

Im not going to get into the debate about US politics, but this one struck me as funny:

DEMOCRATS MOST SUITED TO HANDLE ECONOMY?

- Yea, because bush has been wonderfull for the economy.

[Runned]

i hope you're being sarcastic :(

[Rhawn]

Put me down for 'no, who fucking cares'

[bling]

about taxing the top 30% even more, yea I'm all for that. I really dont care whether Richie Rich gets his third Jaguar or not, and I'm all for raising the minimum wage as drastically as to 10 dollars an hour. The fact that people like my stepmother dont work yet have several million dollars that they haven't touched in their lifetime in a trust fund somewhat bothers me.

[Darwoth]

"The fact that people like my stepmother dont work yet have several million dollars that they haven't touched in their lifetime in a trust fund somewhat bothers me."

blings socialism shines through once more, it bothers you because YOU dont have several million dollars in your bank account, who the fuck are you to decide when someone has to much money?

[Mawwle]

So tell me this Bling,

Do you feel someone should ever be paid more than they are worth?

Mawwle

[Mawwle]

Originally posted by bling
about taxing the top 30% even more, yea I'm all for that. I really dont care whether Richie Rich gets his third Jaguar or not, and I'm all for raising the minimum wage as drastically as to 10 dollars an hour. The fact that people like my stepmother dont work yet have several million dollars that they haven't touched in their lifetime in a trust fund somewhat bothers me.

Top 30% are so evil and rich arent they!!!. Do you realize that you only need to make around 40k or so a year to be in the top 30% ?

Income..........Taxable...........Percent of Total.....Percent of Total
Percentile......Income..............US Income..........Income Taxes Paid

Top 1%.........$313,469............20.81%............. ....37.42%
Top 5%.........$128,336............35.30%............. ....56.47%
Top 10%.......$92,144..............46.01%............. ....67.33%
Top 25%.......$55,225..............67.15%............. ....84.01%


Mawwle

[Bozer]

Originally posted by Mawwle
Ahh, another falicy often spouted by the democrats and readily believed by the weak minded sheeple that make up the masses of our population.

Sometimes in personal loans or mortgages, sometimes in other companies. The people using this "evil rich persons'"

Mawwle [/B]
For one, I am no democrat. I am interested in seeing the American economy grow, and being a student of economics and history it is very clear that the current Republican agenda will not help us in the long run. Its easy to call everyone who disagrees with you sheep.. and intellectually lazy IMHO.

For 2, you have used the phrase "evil rich" in nearly all of your posts. You are creating a straw man argument. I never have referred to the rich as evil, and will be the first to admit the poor commit as many evil deeds as anyone. (because they are poor and have nothing to lose) There is nothing wrong with being rich. Everyone wants to be rich. But the rich do not stimulate economic activity by themselves. They own stock and real estate that generates income based on SPENDING of others (customers). And as we have agreed already the poor spend more of a percentage of their money.

You can own all the shares of Anheuser Busch (sp?) in the world.. but if poor Joe Blow doesnt spend his paycheck on your beer its worth nothing. Nuff said

/camp
:p

[Tassail]

I am voting.

[Mawwle]

Actually Bozer i wasnt specifically attacking you, or even calling you a (oops, here comes that dirty word) democrat. I have just heard time and time again from democratic campaigners how the rich just put their money in the bank and it does nothing for the economy, and this is simply not the truth.

There are 2 types of Envy

Type 1 ..... Wow, look at what he has, i really like that, i wish i had it...I am gonna work my ass off, take an extra job, get some more schooling or do whatever it takes to get what he has because i like it.

Type 2 ...Wow, look what he has, his stuff is way better than my stuff, thats just not fair that he has 3 jaguars and i have a ford escort. I am going to vote to have the government take one of his jaguars away and give it to me.

There are entirely too many people in this world with envy type 2. It doesnt seem to matter to them how hard someone has worked for what they have. It doesnt matter to them that this other person spent their spare money on mutual funds and bonds instead of 12 packs and monster truck races and cigarettes. It doesnt even matter that this other person worked a 60 hour week while going to school to get a good education so they could land a high paying job. All that matters is they have more and better stuff, so its not fair. Take it away from them and give it to me.

Mawwle

[bling]

If you are implying even in the slightest that I am #2 here, then I'm sorry but you are mistaken. I am as opposite to that as can be, and as far as Darwoth accusing me of just being jealous of my stepmother or whatever, that is ludicrous. My example of someone who was born into wealth and hasn't really contributed much to the economy was I guess lost on you, and to say it isn't my money and I shouldn't have a say isn't entirely true because of inheritance.

And yes, to answer someones question I think there should be a limit on capitalism, that there should be a limit to wealth. Fact is, people in the top .1% of income level dont need all that money and can anyone explain to me why people like Bill gates need 40 billion dollars sitting in their bank account anyway, which he couldn't even spend at a fast enough rate buying yachts to offset his income. And I could give a flying fuck if it infringes on peoples individual rights because you know what? I dont really want to see conglomerates and the Merging of Wall Mart Microsoft and McDonalds into one company that dictates prices for all. As it is now, I think that companies like Wall Mart are too large and suffocate smaller business into a point of extinction, and as we have seen only the ruthless survive who use corrupt business tactics.

I guess my last point would have to be that I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if they actually went towards more things I agree with. Throwing 20 Billion dollars a year at the "War on Drugs" and effectively having no result, along with whatever ungodly amount we spend in Afghanastian and on wonderfully useless items in the military (like the hoarding of nukes) is just ridiculous.

[Meat]

Bling,

Bill Gates does more for the people of the world by accident than Mother Teresa did her whole life. He needs that money because he EARNED it, it is HIS. Him and those like him create jobs and generate success for this nation and the world.

GO READ AYN RAND, she is an important thinker of our time. I am guessing you are young and have yet to solidify your beliefs. It surely seems your heart is in the right place. But I strongly urge you to shrug off some of the liberal rhetoric that has been force upon you and go expand your mind a bit.

Check out the libertarian agenda, I think you may find you are more THERE than the so called liberal agenda. I agree that capitalism needs to be regulated to an extent, and that IS the role of gov't; to maintain the competitive environment required for success and freedom to flourish. Once the 'light' goes on you will see 'liberals' for the nazis they are, trust me. Oh it makes me so fuckin pissed they even use the word 'liberal', stealing a synonym for freedom to espouse their big brother rhetoric.

Trust me on this, you are aiming your well intentioned guns at the wrong ideology. The threat is in front of us, disguised as 'doing good' while stealing freedom and gaining power each day.

A good example are unions. They were created with the best of intentions, to provide security for the blue collar workers through solidarity.

They are now and have been for decades nothing more than a power base with NO REGARD for workers or their job security. They worry about getting elected, NOTHING ELSE. I have worked with the UAW for many years, and I have experienced their total disregard for the 'workin man' on a daily basis. It is a game for them, a very sick one. Many many times they have told me this directly during negotiations. Sure there are some good people elected as union officials, but they soon get run over by the political machine. Note there is a STRONG connection between labor unions and the democratic party...no accident bud.

Now go read Ayn Rand's ideology, you may find a new home...

/peace~

[Bozer]

Originally posted by Meat
Bling,

GO READ AYN RAND, she is an important thinker of our time. I am guessing you are young and have yet to solidify your beliefs. It surely seems your heart is in the right place. But I strongly urge you to shrug off some of the liberal rhetoric that has been force upon you and go expand your mind a bit.

/peace~

I have read much of AYN RANDs work (Virtue of Selfishness sits on my bookshelf within reach) and the only thing I have gained was a close up glimpse of a soul in torment.
She is the patron saint of insecurity, and insecure people.

That said, there is nothing wrong with expanding your mind :)
But if you really want to do that pick something written by Nietzsche. Rand is really just regurgitated Nietzsche.

/shiver
This is turning into a book review! ahhhh Im soo sorry

:eek:

[Bozer]

btw Meat, I agree 100% with you about the unions

Democrats got Pwned today! Republicans had some tight races going, but then this oor healer named President Bush started travelling around helping the lowbies out and you know how that goes...

[Arri Skywolf]

Mawwle I agree with your first post on this page (note: not thread).

I consider myself more of a fence walker with politics than anything, but I lean towards the left. I mainly vote with what I think is right for the country, whether it's a Republican or a Democrat that's come with the idea.

As for Bill Gates and his money, he has every right to keep it, he made it. As for Mother Theresa, she did what she could with what she had and to say Bill Gates has done more would be a horrible downplay in the effect she has had personally on so many peoples' lives. She didn't have 40 billion dollars, but she did every single thing she could for the impoverished.

[Wipoleen]

Actually Bill Gates worth is WAY more then he has sitting in the bank. Almost all of Gates value sits in his controlling interest stocks he owns, if he even tried to sell half of that he might walk away with about a quarter of what he is "worth". As for him sitting with all of it in the bank, that is pretty false. His wife is head of the world's largest charity organization, he has so far written the 2 largest checks in history to the organization his first for 11 billion, and the second for 17 billion.

Before you go off saying he only did it for a tax write off, he didnt, you can only claim so much of your yearly income for charity donations, these amounts exceeded those tremondously.


In all honesty, Gates is probably one of the nicer guys this side of hell, a pretty good feat, considering he is Satan's spawn if you listen to his critics.

Don't harsh Bill's vibe man!

[Wipoleen]

Oh, and if you do not believe that Gates fortune is in stocks, consider the fact that 2 years ago he was reported to have a worth of over 70 billion, now after the tech markets crashing, he is only worth 40 billion, seeing as I do not know many people that could spend 30 billion, plus the multitudes of cash he has earned over the last 2 years in that time. His fortune is pretty fictional.

Besides, he does do things with his cash, he reinvests it back into his corporation and has made some of the richest secretaries in history. :\

[Mawwle]

Agreed that the Libertarian party is the ONLY one that makes sense any more. Although i am happy that the republicans took control of the senate, i am fearful that there is not enough of a differance between the 2 parties for any real change to be made.

I voted for ONE and only ONE republican, that was Saxby Chambliss, every other race i voted Libertarian on principle.


There are so many functions of government that need to be dismantled, and if that is done then we can tremendously lower tax rates and do even MORE in the area's government should have some say in. I dont know about you, but every time i bring home 640 dollars out of 1000, i think how much more i could have accomplished if i had the full 1000 to spend as I see fit, not as others see fit.


Gotta get to work (For you democrats, thats the place you go to earn a living)

Mawwle

[Syft]

How could you know so much about politics and be fawking oblivious to the obvious. Hey Jerky you tell me what political party has created a recession everytime they made office????

Oh thats right republicians, you can shout from the rooftops all the wonderful reforms republicians SAY there going to do.

But the bottom line the only thing they know how to do is run the economy into the ground, and then start a bullshit war to boost it back up.

That should be their tag line instead of this bullshit your sprouting, Well run shit into the ground, and then send your poor sons to die :D

In your small worthless lil elitest lifetime it was a DEMOCRAT that created the best economy this country has ever seen. Debate me this with your BS facts. God forbid times get so good we start helping poor people OH MY LORD.

[Darwoth]

i am so sick of klintoon getting all the credit for his era's "good economy" the only thing that motherfucker did other than shit all over the constitution, commit high treason and get blowjobs was ride the incoming tide from previous administrations that was left before him (not the least of which was the after effects of the gulf war), just like bush is now riding the tide to a recession that klintong left in his wake.

[Mawwle]

Syft, you seem to have conveniently forgotten that the recession started long before the 2000 elections even took place. While your precious democrat was still in office.

Mawwle

[yaarii]

Politicians will always try to score points for something that they think they did.

It is quite irrelevant whether or not clinton happened to be responsible for the massive decreases in crime and increases in economic productivity that happened during his reign as president. What does matter is that he is a politician and will try to attribute it all to himself. Now this goes for EVERY fucking politician out there.

For example, here in australia we have a problem with unemployment. In the last few decades it has gone between around 2% to 11% and back down to 6%. Why has it done that? Mostly private industry contracting and expanding, and almost fuckall to do with govt. economic policy. But has that stopped the politicians from being blamed? Or stopped them from trying to take credit? Nope. You'll hear our conservative prime minister blabbering on about how he has taken the unemployment rate down from 7% to 6% in only 7 years and that its a benefit to all.

Both major sides of politics (centre-right and centre-left) do it, so quit bitching about either side being right or wrong, they are both as corrupt as each other when it comes to taking responsibility for things they have or haven't done.