WoW PvP...

[Eyepatch]

Anyone read the reports, interviews and reviews at www.worldofwar.net at all?

I don't know if any of you have read this small bit about PvP yet, not too important, but nice to know.

The people over at www.worldofwar.net hooked up with World of Warcraft Producer Shane Dahiri at the E3 event a bit ago.

Here is a small tidbit they mentioned about PvP...


As we already know, PvP is consensual and about 90% of World of Warcraft's zones will not be PvP enabled. The 10% that will be PvP will have PvP elements such as arenas or even battlefields where players will fight for control of towers or other such buildings. Perhaps this can be perceived as a siege type gameplay which would be ideal for group play.

The arena will be the areas that attract the real crowds and Blizzard will allow players to purchase tickets to watch these spectacles. The arena will also be geared towards PvP guild wars where guilds will purchase special 'guild war' tickets and invite other clans to come fight in the arena. These events will be organised via a broadcast system in the game and other players in the world will be able to purchase tickets for game currency to watch these epic battles. No ticket no spectating. Guild and single PvP battles won't be the only features available. You will be able to purchase tickets to watch dragon fights for example and others players can buy tickets to join in dragon fights already planned. While WoW may be criticised for not having a more open ended PvP system, the development team are doing their best to make sure that those who want an enthralling PvP experience will be more than satisfied with what's in store.


A bit weird if you ask me.

[oNCe]

basically the majority of players they are catoring to are bluebies ;P

the majority of servers will be blue.. non PvP.. much like EQ was..

a lot of us are assuming that Blizzard (being a gaming company which has included/based many games on PvP) will make a PvP server.. which would be 100% PvP..

it might be released with the other servers.. or after.. or never ;P

im confident there will be a PvP server given Blizzard's history, tho ;D

[Exodus]

I hope there will be a rallos type deal. Or else what the fucks the point

[GrayRage]

Yar, we have had much discussion on this topic. In fact, this very quote is posted below in one of these discussions. We are pretty confident they will have 1 or more PvP servers. If you read the WoW message boards, u will see there is alot of folks interested in WoW pvp and I am pretty sure they will address it.

The real question is how we are gonna deal with it. Are we gonna do like on RZ and just PK everyone, or are we gonna find allies (like in SB) thus allowing us to level and get geared (thus being better at pkin). Much debate i am sure and alot depends how things go in the beta and the info we get there.

[oNCe]

lets jus kill everyone..

less drama

more fun

(plus everyone dies)

[Darwoth]

if wow has a pvp server and it doesnt turn out to be a shit game i vote the kill everyone route, i think i have permamently depleted my diplomacy tolerance in shadowbane.

we go in with 20 or so of the older members that did nothing but kill people all day long and think of new and better ways of killing people while they were medding, select a zone to be "ours" and hold it down with the tenacity we did on sullon with velious and we would quickly make it so people stayed away.

[GrayRage]

I tend to agree as it was alwyas fun on RZ. The trouble, however, is recall when Darwoth was level 60 and wanted to PK....and i had to freakin level and could not come? ;p I hated that.

I truly think we need to max out our capabiltites so we don;t get smoked. Several things which will make us succeed:

1. Hard Core members who don't cry and quit cause they got killed...or get attacked to much (this is a biggy).

2. Members who watch what they say (knowing anything they say can be screen capped and used against us).

3. Members who stick together. Help each other.

4. Secure leveling spots.

5. The ability to obtain gear to keep us competitive with the sheep.

Face it guys. When we go this route...it WILL be like rallos zek. It will be the entire server versus us. No matter that it is PvP, there will again be "pkers" (that is retarded....everyone is a fuckin pker on a pvp server).

Fact is, I think we should kill everyone not aligned with us. We SHOULD consider ally guilds. It's still fun to fight 80% of the server.....but fighting 97% of the server = us not taking over zones we want.

Recall, we were in everfrost (killin IGs) when others were in Skyfire. We were in Skyfire when other were in Sebelis. We barely broke into Vellious when i got banned...but we were behind EVERYONE....and why? Cause everyone vs us keeps us from progressing pve wise.

well, lets wait and see how it turns out.

[Darwoth]

well if everyone started about the same time and maxed out together we would be right in sync with everyone else and by the time the bluebie horde managed to gather the typical 3 to 1 pk hunting odds we would easily be able to hold our own.

of course this is mute though because WoW will prob not even have a pk server and if not it isnt worth playing, and if they do it will prob end up getting screwed all up like EQ pvp in the interest of catering to bluebs thereby nuking the pvp system.

[Keta Mean]

There are too many loud mouths and egotistical bitches in PvP servers (hell most of us are as well ^_^ but we are more badass ;) ). On sullon zek, how many times did you want to PK some ToW bitch or something along those lines. Though you are allied with a guild, doesn't mean you don't want to kill some of their members, and honestly some of em deserve to die. It is because of this that a guild like Darkenbane, or at least the historic name of Darkenbane can only be achieved and feared like the days of UO and especially Everquest IF and ONLY IF we do this like the badasses we are and take on the entire server. Screw allies, if we can get our shit down then we can take over zones constantly, not just taking over one zone to claim as ours (like on velious on sullon, and Everfrost on rallos) but also go in massive groups to clear out zones and claim those as ours if we wish to exp in them, then when we are done, we drop and leave (much like when evils would come into velks and TRY to take over ;) ) This of course would need many people, but if this game is gonna unite DB, I wouldn't be surprised of us having a huge roster.

In the end I just don't see allies as the way to go. I want to hunt and kill everyone in WoW, thats the good things when everyone is your enemy, everyone other then your guild is a target.

[GrayRage]

For future referemce it's moot not mute :)

But you are right Dar, it really is a moot discussion as we have no idea of what they are gonna do and won't be able to plan our approach until we know more. We will for sure have beta players which will help and hopefully they will release some info on what kind of servers they will have

[GrayRage]

I was talking to Brian (Mindgames/Static who will be playing WoW with us) and he remined me that many camps/raid spots are dynamic in WoW. Which means we (as DB) start our own raid and no one else can interfere or bother us. This means that when we WANT to do PvE stuff, we can without worry of the mass sheep onslaught to stop us from having equal gear as them ;p

As such, I am gonna go with the kill everyone plan too :)

Oh, u might think this will suck for us as well, but there are many COMMON areas too...NON dynamic camps...also u have to GET to the area to start your event. My guess is we can PvP alot intercepting moving people and ambushing them in the common areas. I am also guessing we will have some good cool wars over many popular common areas.

[Xondio]

if by good (war) you mean us completely bending them over and making them grab their ankles then yes :D

[Mindgames]

I cant confirm the dynamic zoning but it seems like all the MMORPG's are doing it and im pretty sure i read that WoW will as well. First things first.. WoW is pretty much keeping as much shit as they can on the DL.. They wanna keep the competition (EQ, SB, and Final Fantasy) all in the dark on what they are doing so they dont throw it into their games before launch of wow. It seems like what they are doing is making a game in a big circle allowing people to get through the newb lvls without getting crushed by high lvl chars which is fucking moronic anyway.. and making the "uber" zones with the unique items pvp enabled zones. They want to make a hint that pvp will be part of the game i just dont think they want everyone to know how they are doing it at this point. All i can say is keep ya heads up im more than sure they consider PVP a major issue.... afterall the people that are making this game are serious gamers like us and the main reason they made this game is because they were sick of SoE's shit and the fact that they pay no attention to feedback. Im just pretty sure they wanna keep everything zip lipped till beta or even end of beta maybe even after beta as far as PvP is gonna work. Blizzard was built on pvp they cant ignore it.

SWG sucks ass btw.. what a waste of time and money. I cant wait till WoW beta

[Mindgames]

Im sure not everyone wants to pvp and would rather be blue... thats fine. But I for one and many others have no fun playing a game without the eliment for surprise from another PC. What good is questing and skilling if all your worried about is mobs.. thats so boring and what are you xping and gearing for.. to kill more mobs?? mine as well just play eq... Arena's and battle zones for pvp only.. come on thats a joke and no one has ever used them in other MMORPG's (GM event or not).
Thousands of us are eagerly awaiting on this game in hopes of a decent MMORPG with balanced pvp that other MMORPG game makers have abandoned long ago. Reading the latest pvp press release kinda dissapointed alot of us so here are some ideas..
ONE SERVER DEDICATED TO PVP
1) PVP can guild based, team based or even player based unless grouped with those members (to avoid killing team/groupmates with AOE type..
2) Players have to be within a considerable range say 20lvls + or - this way i.e. lvl65 cant smoke a lvl 6 in a split second.
3) Territorial PvP is the most fun 2 or 3 teams reside on 2 or 3 different (distant) locations whilst making it extremely hard for others to invade due to hard NPC resistance to prevent the "5 a.m. Zerg" (NPC power can change when guild/team population increases/decreases)
4) No instant access to safe zones/havens when someone bigger and badder comes to push you off from griefing newbs (I know there arent any zones)
5) Guild towns and building capabilites to defend and attack with NPC hiring capabilities.. nothing is more fun via tradeskills than building your own town and to build your own house and standing on top of your guard towers to protect it.
6) PvP Death - If that person you killed is within an extremely close range you should be able to obtain any coin loot (not to include items from that corpse) and a head from the corpse to be turned into your NPC guildmaster in exchange for beneficial non-permanent items for use in battle/tradeskills or xp. If you are the slain you would lose xp and your coin loot.
7) Fallen guild settlements - If by chance an opposing force does bring down the town it is not completely ruined. The Structures should be able to be repaired in due time only having to replace the slain npc guards/npc's.
8) Bindcamping solutions Putting into effect a back up bindstone if you have been killed at bind more than 3 times in a period of time. call it bind 1 and bind 2
9) Taking over guild settlements as the invading force- After clearing out an opposing forces settlement a "Main NPC" should be killed and looted for either loot and or a small percentage of the guilds bank that should go directly into your guild bank.
10) Guild Banks - should be factored to pay for NPC guards/npc's for over a month in advance, this way guilds will not leave the bank empty to avoid getting "ganked", if they desire to do so the guards and other npc's go on strike and quit.
11) Griefing - simple .. to discourage griefers from overkilling lower lvls that couldnt possibly fight back.. they can suffer via faction loss or a loss of their own xp... that should fix that problem.
12) Killing in non-player made towns - touchy subject.. only way of making this work:
a) PvP is disabled indoors or
b) (not exactly sure how factions will work in WoW) Not being able to be faction burned due to the oppositions faction being higher than yours in your own town(territory) from attacking them.. thereby making it impossible to raise their faction higher than yours.
I think i've covered them all.. Cant wait to see whats in store.

--Mindgames-- DB

[Astoron]

Im not sure about the whole allie thing Gray. I seem to recall Darwoth having like a page of bad mouthing Darxus and I for wanting to do the same in Shadowbane. But you know me. I'm cool with whatever as long as theres action and people to kill.

[Mindgames]

Staticx77,

First of all, welcome to the forums. Now I actually read everything you had to say and now it's time to enlighten you. Please read the following:



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Q u o t e:
What good is questing and skilling if all your worried about is mobs.. thats so boring and what are you xping and gearing for.. to kill more mobs??
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A. Good point. But in WoW you will have to worry about being killed, as Blizzard considers entering a pvp-only area to be an act of consent. These areas will be clearly marked, of course. And although we don't know the specifics about how large PvP zones are going to be, the fact that the Blizzard team has admitted several of their staff are hardcore PK's is very good indication that the zones are large enough to hide, and hunt players in.

B. Well in WoW fighting NPC's is actually very exciting. You will always lose vs a NPC of equal level if you don't use your skills/spells strategically and time them right. This means you will never be able to just open a book and read while waiting to level.

Furthermore there will be insanely challenging NPC's... some NPC's can be controlled by Game Masters, giving them REAL life intelligence. There are also NPC's that are immensely powerful, that take 20, 30, even 200 players to defeat.



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Q u o t e:
2) Players have to be within a considerable range say 20lvls + or - this way i.e. lvl65 cant smoke a lvl 6 in a split second.
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This idea is actually confirmed! They're called "tiers" and they ensure you can only pvp with people similar to your own lvl.

From our interview @ E3:
Will there be a PvP-only server?
No, there are instead PvP-only areas on each server. Eventually a PvP-only server may be created, but at the moment it is virtually certain that they will not exist.



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Q u o t e:
3) Territorial PvP is the most fun 2 or 3 teams reside on 2 or 3 different (distant) locations whilst making it extremely hard for others to invade due to hard NPC resistance to prevent the "5 a.m. Zerg" (NPC power can change when guild/team population increases/decreases)
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There will be terretorial pvp, but only in pvp only areas. Two guilds, for example, would be able to fight over a city. And the NPC's one side kills would stay dead. At the end of the special event the side that won the most kills would gain control of the town and the towns faction would change from alliance to horde... meaning the guards in that city would then attack alliance ppl on sight. Later in the week the GM could come back and make the area open for war again and the guilds could fight over it again.

Another thing to note is that, while in a pvp zone, you can do quests to get special rewards that people that don't play in pvp zones will never be able to get. (cosmetic only... like instead of a shield with a happy face on it, you get one with a snarling dragon or all black).



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Q u o t e:
4) No instant access to safe zones/havens when someone bigger and badder comes to push you off from griefing newbs (I know there arent any zones)
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???????????

You can't grief in WoW, nor can you push people from one zone to another as there is no player collision.

???????????



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Q u o t e:
5) Guild towns and building capabilites to defend and attack with NPC hiring capabilities.. nothing is more fun via tradeskills than building your own town and to build your own house and standing on top of your guard towers to protect it.
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In an interview Blizzard mentioned your guild hall would be attackable by NPC's.



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Q u o t e:
6) PvP Death - If that person you killed is within an extremely close range you should be able to obtain any coin loot (not to include items from that corpse) and a head from the corpse to be turned into your NPC guildmaster in exchange for beneficial non-permanent items for use in battle/tradeskills or xp. If you are the slain you would lose xp and your coin loot.
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Players will be able to place bets on pvp events. Not much more is known about this yet than that statement.

OK please understand PvP will not ever be able to happen without consent. Nobody can kill anybody without consent. There will never be such lame things as bind point camping, greifing, corpse running, or anything to do with downtime.




[ post edited by loren ]



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<=Loren_3000=>
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[Keta Mean]

To be honest, I remember starting EQ, and my boss from work (who got me into EQ and was showing me the ropes around the game) told me the first day i logged on to Rallos to always / all darkenbane and other known guilds, but to always be on the lookout for darkenbane. He would tell me they were ruthless PKers who wouldnt hesitate to kill you if you were in range, and the best option was to run.

^^ that was my first impression of darkenbane. pure fear. these guys were badass, they didn't fuck around, they killed and made people fear them, they made EVERYONE fear them. After i got tired of running, i decided to turn pk to try and join up with DB which i ended up just doing on sullon. I even killed my boss under a DB tag much later on heh, he was pissed. That is what im talking about though. Coming to Rallos and just hearing about some crazy PK guild called Darkenbane that was bent on the annihilation of everyone. Lets get that name back in WoW. None of this ally stuff ^_^ lets just kill some peeps and have the name Darkenbane bring fear again.

also...mindgames thanks for that info, im gettin even more excited for this game.

[Darwoth]

im not in the mood to rehash old shit but to summarize the reason i had a motuhful to say to you and darxus was for the following reasons......

1> you wasted my time joining the DB contingent on scorn only to turn around and decide you wanted to play guildmaster and ditch all of us. which aside from wasting my time, does not exactly reflect any loyalty to your fellow guildmates, which made up 2/3 of the roster.

2> when the two of you did leave you didnt just leave, instead you chose to come on the boards and talk unprovoked shit about the method we were leaning towards and attempted to siphon off members from the scorn roster to join you folks on whatever server you went to.

3> you named the guild darkenbane with if memory serves the only darkenbane were you and darxus, which spelled to me another fucktard recruitfest which the remnants of continue to plague the guilds reputation to this day. on the other hand i had over 20 real deal non retard darkenbane on the roster and still didnt feel comfortable reviving the name

4> you didnt just ally with people, you allied with the largest zergling force on your server and used that as a selling point in your recruitment post, which for the past several years ive been involved with the guild flies totally against the grain.

5> when i brought these points up and responded to the shitty attitude and half truths about the course the guild was taking and attempt at eroding the guild that i spent a month organizing with less than a nice outlook i was bombarded with retardation and shittalk.

so you will have to excuse me if i seemed a tad irritable.


that aside, yes i agree, NO alliances with ANYONE. it simply NEVER works. every single alliance weve been involved with simply doesnt work.

orden and darkenbane, how many dozens of times did the ordens decide to splinter off and do their own thing? how much drama was caused by shitfits between the germans and other folks (i know myself and genaside were not the only ones)

TDC and DB on sullon........ lol dont think i need to refresh anyones memory there, i do however recall losing yoink and the rest of the oinks over them though, a loss which really sucks because yoink was easily one of my top 5 favorite people to hang with in guild.

SC/DB and all the retards in shadowbane....... dont get me started, if you were in the guild and read the boaards you had more than your fill of political bullshit anyway.

regardless of the potential difficulties, the next game, if it is truly to unite us all and get back to way the guild used to be, needs to be set up the way it used to be also. which of course is us vs everyone else, there is not a more fun way to play anyway.

[Exodus]

"Another thing to note is that, while in a pvp zone, you can do quests to get special rewards that people that don't play in pvp zones will never be able to get. (cosmetic only... like instead of a shield with a happy face on it, you get one with a snarling dragon or all black)."

COSMETIC ONLY. Will blubies really give a fuck about how it looks? If the item isent any better then the one they got in bluebie land, I dont think many blubies would take the trouble to get it..

NEXT:

"OK please understand PvP will not ever be able to happen without consent. Nobody can kill anybody without consent. There will never be such lame things as bind point camping, greifing, corpse running, or anything to do with downtime."

"the fact that the Blizzard team has admitted several of their staff are hardcore PK's"

BULLSHIT

Ok so PvP wont ever happen without consent? Uhhh... can that fact possibly get even gayer? If PvP is just consent, why even play this fucking game? Mine as well play EQ and /duel people. Yawn.

I have a feeling there wont be a PvP server, either.

[Mindgames]

Guys gimme some support on my post ill try to link it to here

Support PvP servers (http://www.battle.net/forums/wow/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=269900&P=1&ReplyCount=8#post269900)

click on that you may need a cd keyto post..
look for an old copy of warcraft/diablo and use that one.

[Darwoth]

after reading the above reply i hope they have a lot more planned for pvp then than the standard bullshit we are hearing so far......

holy shit lets all rush out for the wonderous excitement of killing a stupid fucking NPC that needs 200 people omfg! (this also has an undertone of the infamous EQesque phat lewt pharming we are all familiar with)

holy fuck i can fight over a meaningless fort in the middle of an obscure zone nobody ever goes to because they are all bl00bing it up in the safe zone aka DAOC w00t!

AWESOME pvp will be tier based, nothing like the joys of oor healers/ buffers/ trainers and spies that you can do NOTHING about!

will have to wait and see, but since every single game ive played since EQ that i thought had potential has sucked i dont have much faith in this one either, and if they dont have at least one server set aside for those who want to have real pvp id say it is a waste of time.

[Eyepatch]

Alls I know is I want to make love to WoW already :D

[Astoron]

Ya I'll have to agree shadowbane did suck. The whole day we had the Darkenbane name we had about 10 people in the guild. The reason was prolly cause I never played. The game blew ass. But Darwoth one thing you need to understand, before you were even darkenbane back before kunark we were a zerg guild if you want to call it that. You missed out on all the zones we zerged. Me using the name Darkenbane was in no way a selling point , its the only guild I've ever been in so I stick with the roots. Kinda like im still Darkenbane on PS, just under the name Automag. I never started on scron and really after I heard your plan to not have a base of command, any structure what so ever to your guild. Either way even If I would of started off in your guild I wouldn't of played. Shadowbane just wasn't the Darkenbane way of gaming. So im off to PS to rape some newbs and eat some babies

[Xondio]

I remember one time we had 7 groups of 6 people each, and we raped fear and took the zone the whole day, that was great, but like 3-4 years ago, back when it was actually fun and there weren't any gay AD.. I got banned with that char a week later for portal camping.

I agree Darwoth, if there isn't a server set aside for pure pvp then fuck it, it's not worth playing. The graphics look wonderful, the gameplay sounds fantastic, but i've been fooled by that before (aka DAOC (which i played one day and sold it for 5 dollars), Shadowbane (thank god i got beta before i bought that piece of shit), Eve (has depth, but gets boring after 2 hours), and Star Wars Galaxies (thank god i got beta before as well, I wont buy this game). It's just games like these that promise the same thing and fail to deliver. However, Blizzard has put out nothing but great games, so that does relinquish my faith just a bit more into that game, but I'm getting 2 different answers about PVP. One is they do have pvp server, another is that they don't. We will find out when beta comes anyway.

[Mindgames]

where did you hear they were having a pvp server.
the admin just told me they werent.

[Xondio]

Originally posted by Mindgames
where did you hear they were having a pvp server.

I read it on their official forums (by people not anything official), and some people here told me it was also.


the admin just told me they weren't.


Then what the fuck is the point of playing it?

So we can prounce around in carebare land?

I'd sooner play Shadowbane in it's bulk piece of shit then a game without or a tiny amount of PVP

[edit] Blizzard has been pretty good about pvp, but maybe because of that game exodus was talking about by blizzard called guild wars is why, maybe they think they can go carebare on WoW and go full pvp on guild wars? maybe maybe not.


This is going to suck if WoW doesn't even have one PVP server