Me, Arkons, War3 and 2 v 2

[GrayRage]

So i login to TS and Arkons is there. Says, let's play some 2 on 2. We are level 1 as a team as we have never played before. So we play the first game and to be honest, I thought we did decent, but in the end, we got wooped. Arkons and I bitched at each other a little...he yelled at me for being inexperienced (i suck) and I hollered at him for not directly me (as a sucky player) better :P

So i check these guys records (that we played) and it's a combined 1100 wins to about 100 losses! WTF? Some match making service Battle Net is :p. I mean it pitted two guys who have prolly played FOREVER with awesome records and a zillion games played....WTF WTF WTF ! :D

Ok ok...so we get past it and figure let's play again. We are still level 1....and play the next game.....this game went pretty long and wenty back and forth a few times, but we lost again and Arkopns and I bicvkered at each other again :) So we check their records.....and they are like 1500 wins to 150 losses combined! WTF WTF WTF! LOL Can't we find anyone else that sucks on B-Net? :p

[Saradin]

War3 for one isnt for casual gamers, you are gonna have to devote a lot of time to it to even win at level 1. Unfortunately the matchmaking system sucks. I also don't know what you mean by combined records??? A guy that has a record of 200-5 and another guy that is 100-0 can pair up as a team and they will be LEVEL 1 since they have never played together before. Also, the game is really imbalanced right now but it seems you are finding non-cheese games at least.

Btw what race do you play?

[Arkons]

The guys we played were guys that although play a lot, still tend to suck. Guys who are like 30-20 somethings on solo ladder.
Undead/orc is our races which is another problem in itself. The biggest problem tho, is that gray is inexperienced, and I have little to no idea how to play orc :)

Grey btw try catapults in ur next game, fully upgraded they rock

[Saradin]

I switched to Orc after beta and Once plays UD.

He usually goes fiend/statue/banshee w/ DK/CL and i usually go Grunts->doctor->tauren w/ either FS/TC or FS/SH if we are playing against a human or ne. Demos aren't good unless you are playing double since you will be low on grunts and UD has shit for meat.

Sar-

[GrayRage]

I watched a game between saradin and once that lasted like AN HOUR. U had that game too, Sar....if u just kept him from leaving his base or getting the new gold mine while keeping yours collecting some gold from peon running to your twon...u woulda had him :p When u rushed his town, tho, he killed yah and had like only his heros left which was enough to finish off your peons....close game :p

Anyhow...after I watched that game I changed alot of my tactics to match yours. The differnce is simple micro management. It will be a LONG LONG LONG time before i can control my guys like u did. Leaving static wards behind u when u were running was funny :p That bitch ONce is a cheating bastad!!! :)

That was an awesome game tho.

[Exodus]

Link?

[GrayRage]

will send it to yah if u want (put yer email up).

[Saradin]

I watched a game between saradin and once that lasted like AN HOUR. U had that game too, Sar....if u just kept him from leaving his base or getting the new gold mine while keeping yours collecting some gold from peon running to your twon...u woulda had him When u rushed his town, tho, he killed yah and had like only his heros left which was enough to finish off your peons....close game

Anyhow...after I watched that game I changed alot of my tactics to match yours. The differnce is simple micro management. It will be a LONG LONG LONG time before i can control my guys like u did. Leaving static wards behind u when u were running was funny That bitch ONce is a cheating bastad!!!

That was an awesome game tho.

UD has always been my worst matchup. I think I am 40% win ratio vs them and as such, I don't think I've ever beaten Once while he was using UD. The problem is grunts don't go up against fiends too well especially once Dk gets unholy aura. He completely rapes me w/ a fiend build. I guess he wanted to try to go ghouls and when he did I knew it would be a good game and it was. Gray I didn't really have a strategy but I'll tell you what went through my mind. When I saw ghouls I thought grunt/doctor. Once then decided to abuse necros since orc has no form of dispell and I got a little worried =p. I took a chance in adding tauren in w/ pulverize later ( usually not a good idea cuz of banshees ) to kill skeletons and readied batriders for the eventual destroyers that would devour my healing wards. I should have added shaman in later now that I think about it. The reason I couldnt keep him in his base is I never had enough units. UD heroes >>>>>>>> Orc heroes. The whole game I was scrambling to keep my FS alive from hero nuking which is so blatantly imbalanced now cuz of statues. I rushed a little at the end of the game cuz I wanted to kill off his altar before he revived but I got met there by a dk and lich that my tc couldnt take so it was gg after that. Only ways I can win vs a ud are usually on a tavern map or supplementing my army with towers in his base. Other than that, it has taken a long time for me to realize that you have to beat UD w/ your army since they will always be trying to snipe your heroes. My strategy would have been completely different if he had gone fiends. You need to learn the counters first and then worry about strategy later.

I did enjoy that game though.

Sar-

[MethodSZ]

which server do you guys play on, and are you playing with the frozen throne expansion?


i played human during war3 beta and stuck with them when it went live

im bored, i dont think tow is raiding and no time for a wc3 game or a good counter strike session so ill go ahead and post my strat =)

i go for my archmage first, pump out some footmen, then upgrade my castle and get a paladin and some riflemen, and then i add in some priests and sorcerors and finally a few knights

1 barracks, 1 arcane sanctuary, and never a gryphon place unless i see my opponent has no defense against air

the rest of the game is just a simple isolate the enemy and harass his expansions, i always win eventually =)

[oNCe]

UD has always been my worst matchup. I think I am 40% win ratio vs them and as such, I don't think I've ever beaten Once while he was using UD. The problem is grunts don't go up against fiends too well especially once Dk gets unholy aura. He completely rapes me w/ a fiend build. I guess he wanted to try to go ghouls and when he did I knew it would be a good game and it was. Gray I didn't really have a strategy but I'll tell you what went through my mind. When I saw ghouls I thought grunt/doctor. Once then decided to abuse necros since orc has no form of dispell and I got a little worried =p. I took a chance in adding tauren in w/ pulverize later ( usually not a good idea cuz of banshees ) to kill skeletons and readied batriders for the eventual destroyers that would devour my healing wards. I should have added shaman in later now that I think about it. The reason I couldnt keep him in his base is I never had enough units. UD heroes >>>>>>>> Orc heroes. The whole game I was scrambling to keep my FS alive from hero nuking which is so blatantly imbalanced now cuz of statues. I rushed a little at the end of the game cuz I wanted to kill off his altar before he revived but I got met there by a dk and lich that my tc couldnt take so it was gg after that. Only ways I can win vs a ud are usually on a tavern map or supplementing my army with towers in his base. Other than that, it has taken a long time for me to realize that you have to beat UD w/ your army since they will always be trying to snipe your heroes. My strategy would have been completely different if he had gone fiends. You need to learn the counters first and then worry about strategy later.


UD vs Orc is extremely hard for orc to win because of low hp heros and lack of range early on..

going fiend, i can beat 90% of orc players unless they add in well microd raiders with ensnare and TC for aura/stomp to counter my kiting..

what i did wrong that game was allow sar to creep the ogres by the shops.. they drop the best loot on that map and he did a good job of jacking them..
i also didnt expand till way late in the game and because of that was losing the resource battle.. a lot of my atks were out of desperation which i like to keep to a minimum on his expansion

i should have added in wagons i think.. and a few banshees.. but for the most part i tend to go fiend build so my ghoul micro is still under par ;x

fun/good game regardless ;D

[Arkons]

vs. orc i always mix ghouls and fiends, makes your fiends three times as effective, because they are impossible to hit behind well microed ghouls. And then of course quick tech to statues and necros =D

[Calrenkarn]

I want to get some games going here but nobody is around when im online (from around 10am-1pm and 11pm-3pm pacific time) I think im on USwest... are you guys on USeast??

Concerning Orcs vs UD its definately a tough matchup (only cow and farseer work well but if you plan on rushing get Bm to make a big mess of there city and tower rush them) since they cant get meat wagons easily. Since the patch fiends are now the win all own all of the first tier seemingly so you need ranged or Cows just to go through the masses.

[Saradin]

Finally beat Once legitally ^_^

Just thought I'd share that the UD n00ber went down kakakak

[Calrenkarn]

Dam, i got worked by Once yesterday in 2 1vs1 games and in one free for all game. Im just looking at the stratagies these other guys used against once but man... these people dont seem to know what there doing :P. They get the units right but they dont even bother upgrading the armor/weapons of the units. That would give them like 1 extra hunt/ 2 archers but could save there army from his attacks. I also noticed that Once used ghouls in both battles with the NE games (the replays he gave me of getting beat) yet when he plays me he go's mass fiends/statues so i need some better tactics....

How did ya beat him anyways sar?

[GrayRage]

Let us check out the replay :p

[oNCe]

that game was gay :(

we need a tie breaker k ;P

he beat me then i beat him (lol @ killing entire army with DK)

also: patch needs to fucking come cause the game in current state is bullshit

things that need balancing in order of importance imo:

1) Beastermaster/Naga and Mercs in general
2) Slow
3) AE's
4) Manaflare
5) Human Fast Expand (militia in general)
6) Human Tower Rush vs NE
5) Mana Siphon range
6) Purge
7) Statues mana regen
8) Shadow Strike
9) Spirit Walkers dispel needs to cost less mana.. or give them larger mana pool.. fix spirit link and make it not kill all units linked to beserkers lol
10) Lightning Orb (same reason as purge)


if they looked at those abilities/units the game would be a lot better~

also its messed up that UD have 0 dispel till tier3.5..

edit- added in more stuff i jus remembered

[Saradin]

Game 2 I got lazy and I had that, I should have just sat in my base and let my peons run to the mine forever and let you come to me. I had a full base, you had 1 building and a DK. In a tourney you would have been disqualified ^_^. I wanted to test bladestorm and definitely overestimated it. Didn't matter I made some mistakes in that game and beating me w/ a DK nuke was eventual unless I wanted to sit in my base w/ my blademaster, peons in burrow, and my tower. Point is I could have won if I wanted since I was accumulating gold and you weren't. Other than that, your nerf list I agree w/ for the most part cept this:

6) Purge

Purge is fine. It's only abusive cuz you can buy mercs at the shop that have high mana pools and can come out purging like there is no tomorrow. I do agree that maybe the procing of the orb should be toned down a little but shaman purge is a pretty high mana cost and has shit range.

However you should add to your list nerfing of possession, UD hero nuking ( edit: using an int hero against UD is pretty much out of the question therefore needing a nerf ), and well you already have statues =P

Human needs to be nerfed hard and just a couple NE units and BM.

[oNCe]

see below~

[oNCe]

maybe they should take away mana pots from UD store..

mana from statues helps but i do get most from jus shellin out the 200$ and buyin a lot of pots..

and lich jus needs a wand of necro for ininite mana ;P

more and more i play orc i am thinking purge is imbalanced because it greys out my commands.. i cant micro the unit because of that. basically i think its BS that a unit will stop full in its tracks when purged.. and turn around to atk.. i think the unit should stop, but then continue with orders i give it.

Purge is like a single unit taunt and can be cast over and over again to basically kill any hero i have.. i can show you a replay of an orc i played killing my dk 5 times with 3 shaman. you know how rare my DK dies and i jus see something wrong with that picture ;P

[Saradin]

Well I still don't think purge is overpowered since you are the first person to ever complain about it since RoC where mass casters and mass purge was a problem. Outside of that, I feel that if I use an int hero vs a ud, you can drop him w/ a tri-hero nuke w/o any micro required and there is nothing I can do about it. I could care less about mana pots but I think both coil and nova should do less damage to a hero and need a nerf so I can actually pick non-str heroes that can survive one round of nuking.

I think Ud has an edge on orc and ne now but still get raped by human. Tri-hero nuking > orc and ne ( bm included ).

Sar-