Meter
05-04-2004, 08:10 AM
Posted by grayrage (mailto:grayrage@darkenbane.com)
I always wondered what the point of many EQ quests were. For the most part they were so complicated it took inside information leaked to the public to complete them. Most normal players simply went to spoiler sites and found out the mechanical step by step actions necessary to receive the end result (phat loot of course). More often then not, most folks really had absolutely no idea what they were doing let alone the story line behind the quest objectives.
World of Warcraft, however, has surely improved upon this with an ingenious and fun quest system where players are actually INTERESTED in the stories and follow along quite easily becoming a part of the game itself. The quest system of WoW is such an integral part of the game that I seriously doubt anyone will be simply "farming" experience. In fact, I dare say the days of "farming" are over for those moving on to World of Warcraft.
I find the ironic part of this is the fact a game with a very poor quest system is named Everquest, whilst a game likely to crush it actually fits that name better. No matter, though, it's very well implemented and TONS of fun. Leveling takes a LONG time, but the players won't even notice. Isn't that what the goal has always been?
Ok enough with the crapola. I have been playing now for a couple of weeks and have yet even more experiences to share, some of which are observations about PvP which I know you all are interested in. To make this easier to follow (for those of you with attention spans of a ping pong ball...*cough* Lisa *cough*), I will categorize it.
Performance
Everyone who has experienced big PvP battles know a problem with graphical lag can = death and surely a slow down in fun. So far in WoW I have experienced between 30 and 60 FPS in just about all situations including pretty intensive situations involving many players. Admittedly, mine and Lisa's puters are big dogs, but I have a feeling this sucker will run better then anything we have played in the past. For those in beta that don't know yet, ctrl-r turns on the FPS meter or get FRAPS to check it.
Basically, it will support heavy PvP conflict IMHO.
Teams
There has been mentioned the possibility of the Undead being invulnerable to Sleep and Fear. I seriously doubt this will make the final cut, however, as EVERYONE would end up picking Undead. This would be a HUGE advantage in PvP and one that cannot be overlooked if it truly goes live (which I doubt).
Geographically there is no advantage to either team. Both teams have all of their races on a home continent with the exception of one each. The Undead start on the Alliance¡¦s continent and the Night Elves begin on the Horde¡¦s continent. In all respects it looks like they balanced these out pretty well. I like it. Advantage to either faction, though? None IMHO. Fun factor? High.
The only true difference we will need to consider when picking our faction is whether we like the Paladin or the Shaman better (unless racial attributes make it into the PvP game which is yet to be known). I personally think this will be a melee dominated end game so lean toward the Paladin (Alliance) so far, but it¡¦s far to early to tell.
PvP Balance
This will be a HUGE undertaking for Blizzard. All I can say, is they will have their hands full. Basically, however, I think the melees will own this game in the long run for the following reasons:
In the beta and the beginning of the game, people will not have good resist gear, thus will get owned by magic users. This will lead to an enormous outcry for caster nerfs. Blizzard will break down and nerf casters based on the poor data received from PvP with poor gear. Not only will this weaken casters against poorly geared foes, it will make them useless when people actually get the uber resist gear.
While casters and melees will generally have the same resists to magic, melees will have a much greater resistance to melee damage then casters. This fundamentally means the melees will have greater defense against both forms of damage whilst the casters inevitably will be left behind when it comes to melee defense. To make up for this lack of melee defense, casters have spells like sleep, snare, fear and a brief root, but if resists nerf these to much, this defense won¡¦t exist.
Casters in WoW rely on their spells to hit for them to be effective in combat. Especially the spells to keep melees from beating them senseless. Roots, Snares, Mezzes and Fear are the spells casters will use to keep melees off of them, however, these are the spells most often cried about by the masses to be nerfed. At the very BEST, these spells will not hit reliably on melees and at worst they will work like they do in EQ¡K.which is not at all (it¡¦s to the point where no one even bothers to use root or snare spells. Why have the spell if it¡¦s useless?). Anyone playing the beta now knows that if a mob resists to many of their spells (specifically movement related ones), they are dead. So why is it going to be different with a player? Answer: It won¡¦t. Take away these spells from casters and they are melee bait (which likely will happen).
Melee damage is unlimited and increases in damage are simply gained by getting a better weapon. Caster¡¦s damage is set by a specific spell and, as far as I have seen so far, is not increased by any items. Basically, this means melees have an open end to increase their damage output as opposed to the static output of a caster. EQ made some efforts to fix this by adding focus effects on items, but they have fiddled with their system so much that it would take a nuclear physicist to figure out if it was balanced.
Devs tend to like to add higher resist rates with larger level differences (in PvP). Presently, I find casting on a mob more then 6 or 7 levels higher then me pretty iffy (it resists A LOT). If they do this with PvP, casters will be useless if they are fighting anything mopre then 6 levels above them. Contrarily, it could get rather annoying for a level 60 character to be mezzed or snared by a level 5 one. Tricky business this PvP balancing.
Bottom line? While I think casters will own in the first weeks even months of game play, then I think they will be nerfed like hell and it will really hurt them when people start getting the uber gear.
PvP Server Types
I do not believe an FFA PvP server will work in WoW. Beyond the simple problems of AE spells (there are A LOT in WoW), I don¡¦t think it will work in the game play anyhow. First of all, most players will go the easy route and make ¡§deals¡¨ with others. In the end, PvPers will be ostracized as criminal ¡§PKs¡¨ who by the very nature of the game won¡¦t be terribly successful anyhow. In the end, an FFA server will end up being blueby with some pathetic players who call themselves ¡§PKs¡¨ feebly trying to kill newbies in newby zones with no real purpose as they will be unable to face highly leveled and geared ¡§bluebs¡¨ in 1 on 1 combat.
Some folks say that an organized guild like Darkenbane cold play well on an FFA server which might be true for a while, but in the end it would be thousands of people versus 40 of us. While playing WoW beta, I rarely see a zone with less then 50 people in it and very often see them in access of 80 players. On an FFA server, I would expect a daily doseage of ¡§anti¡¨ attacks against any DB stronghold with ALWAYS far superior numbers. In the end, the server will be like Rallos Zek where many level 65 250+ AA characters have seen less PvP then bluebs on Legends from their Arena duels.
Contrarily (my word of the day), a FvF (faction versus faction) server such as Sullon Zek encourages PvP as it is no longer considered by the player base as anti social activity. In fact, it is what a player is supposed to do. The key, however, is making the rule set correctly. After some really good input from many folks, we have come up with an excellent rule set for a WoW FvF server as follows:
No PvP combat level restriction. We have found that any level restrictions on PvP servers lead to LOADS of exploits such as spying, invulnerable healing and buffing, training and other annoyances that take away from the PvP environment.
No PvP safe zones. If you want to be safe, go deep in Stormwind or Ironforge or some other large city with level 90 guards. Safe zones blow.
No damage degradation for spell damage based on levels. Resist degradation on movement or sleep, however, should exist. IE: Level 4 mages should be able to hit a level 65 warrior for his full nuke of¡Kwhat? 20? ƒº But he will likely never land a mez or snare.
A report function should be given to defenders (players in their own lands) where they can target and then report the presence and location of a targeted enemy player. This report will put a red flashing dot of the enemy¡¦s location for EVERYONE on their faction to see. The location will only be updated when a report is given of that enemy¡¦s location. The report will also send a message to all of the defending faction¡¦s players. This should allow defenders to know that their lands are being invaded and by whom. It will also allow low level defenders to get involved by tracking foes wherever they go.
Detailed stats kept on the internet based on kills and times killed should be kept.
Guards should be unexploitable (faction wise) and given see invis the closer they are to a home town.
For those of you clammering for an FFA PvP server, you will see how this would not work in WoW very well after you get to play it. Those playing it now, will agree that a FvF server would likely be enormous fun and the rule set I mentioned above should make it a blast. To be honest, it¡¦s MHO that ALL of the servers should follow the above rule set. If, however, they put in safe zones and level restrictions, look for it to blow chunks (PvP wise) just like every other game that tried that BS.
I always wondered what the point of many EQ quests were. For the most part they were so complicated it took inside information leaked to the public to complete them. Most normal players simply went to spoiler sites and found out the mechanical step by step actions necessary to receive the end result (phat loot of course). More often then not, most folks really had absolutely no idea what they were doing let alone the story line behind the quest objectives.
World of Warcraft, however, has surely improved upon this with an ingenious and fun quest system where players are actually INTERESTED in the stories and follow along quite easily becoming a part of the game itself. The quest system of WoW is such an integral part of the game that I seriously doubt anyone will be simply "farming" experience. In fact, I dare say the days of "farming" are over for those moving on to World of Warcraft.
I find the ironic part of this is the fact a game with a very poor quest system is named Everquest, whilst a game likely to crush it actually fits that name better. No matter, though, it's very well implemented and TONS of fun. Leveling takes a LONG time, but the players won't even notice. Isn't that what the goal has always been?
Ok enough with the crapola. I have been playing now for a couple of weeks and have yet even more experiences to share, some of which are observations about PvP which I know you all are interested in. To make this easier to follow (for those of you with attention spans of a ping pong ball...*cough* Lisa *cough*), I will categorize it.
Performance
Everyone who has experienced big PvP battles know a problem with graphical lag can = death and surely a slow down in fun. So far in WoW I have experienced between 30 and 60 FPS in just about all situations including pretty intensive situations involving many players. Admittedly, mine and Lisa's puters are big dogs, but I have a feeling this sucker will run better then anything we have played in the past. For those in beta that don't know yet, ctrl-r turns on the FPS meter or get FRAPS to check it.
Basically, it will support heavy PvP conflict IMHO.
Teams
There has been mentioned the possibility of the Undead being invulnerable to Sleep and Fear. I seriously doubt this will make the final cut, however, as EVERYONE would end up picking Undead. This would be a HUGE advantage in PvP and one that cannot be overlooked if it truly goes live (which I doubt).
Geographically there is no advantage to either team. Both teams have all of their races on a home continent with the exception of one each. The Undead start on the Alliance¡¦s continent and the Night Elves begin on the Horde¡¦s continent. In all respects it looks like they balanced these out pretty well. I like it. Advantage to either faction, though? None IMHO. Fun factor? High.
The only true difference we will need to consider when picking our faction is whether we like the Paladin or the Shaman better (unless racial attributes make it into the PvP game which is yet to be known). I personally think this will be a melee dominated end game so lean toward the Paladin (Alliance) so far, but it¡¦s far to early to tell.
PvP Balance
This will be a HUGE undertaking for Blizzard. All I can say, is they will have their hands full. Basically, however, I think the melees will own this game in the long run for the following reasons:
In the beta and the beginning of the game, people will not have good resist gear, thus will get owned by magic users. This will lead to an enormous outcry for caster nerfs. Blizzard will break down and nerf casters based on the poor data received from PvP with poor gear. Not only will this weaken casters against poorly geared foes, it will make them useless when people actually get the uber resist gear.
While casters and melees will generally have the same resists to magic, melees will have a much greater resistance to melee damage then casters. This fundamentally means the melees will have greater defense against both forms of damage whilst the casters inevitably will be left behind when it comes to melee defense. To make up for this lack of melee defense, casters have spells like sleep, snare, fear and a brief root, but if resists nerf these to much, this defense won¡¦t exist.
Casters in WoW rely on their spells to hit for them to be effective in combat. Especially the spells to keep melees from beating them senseless. Roots, Snares, Mezzes and Fear are the spells casters will use to keep melees off of them, however, these are the spells most often cried about by the masses to be nerfed. At the very BEST, these spells will not hit reliably on melees and at worst they will work like they do in EQ¡K.which is not at all (it¡¦s to the point where no one even bothers to use root or snare spells. Why have the spell if it¡¦s useless?). Anyone playing the beta now knows that if a mob resists to many of their spells (specifically movement related ones), they are dead. So why is it going to be different with a player? Answer: It won¡¦t. Take away these spells from casters and they are melee bait (which likely will happen).
Melee damage is unlimited and increases in damage are simply gained by getting a better weapon. Caster¡¦s damage is set by a specific spell and, as far as I have seen so far, is not increased by any items. Basically, this means melees have an open end to increase their damage output as opposed to the static output of a caster. EQ made some efforts to fix this by adding focus effects on items, but they have fiddled with their system so much that it would take a nuclear physicist to figure out if it was balanced.
Devs tend to like to add higher resist rates with larger level differences (in PvP). Presently, I find casting on a mob more then 6 or 7 levels higher then me pretty iffy (it resists A LOT). If they do this with PvP, casters will be useless if they are fighting anything mopre then 6 levels above them. Contrarily, it could get rather annoying for a level 60 character to be mezzed or snared by a level 5 one. Tricky business this PvP balancing.
Bottom line? While I think casters will own in the first weeks even months of game play, then I think they will be nerfed like hell and it will really hurt them when people start getting the uber gear.
PvP Server Types
I do not believe an FFA PvP server will work in WoW. Beyond the simple problems of AE spells (there are A LOT in WoW), I don¡¦t think it will work in the game play anyhow. First of all, most players will go the easy route and make ¡§deals¡¨ with others. In the end, PvPers will be ostracized as criminal ¡§PKs¡¨ who by the very nature of the game won¡¦t be terribly successful anyhow. In the end, an FFA server will end up being blueby with some pathetic players who call themselves ¡§PKs¡¨ feebly trying to kill newbies in newby zones with no real purpose as they will be unable to face highly leveled and geared ¡§bluebs¡¨ in 1 on 1 combat.
Some folks say that an organized guild like Darkenbane cold play well on an FFA server which might be true for a while, but in the end it would be thousands of people versus 40 of us. While playing WoW beta, I rarely see a zone with less then 50 people in it and very often see them in access of 80 players. On an FFA server, I would expect a daily doseage of ¡§anti¡¨ attacks against any DB stronghold with ALWAYS far superior numbers. In the end, the server will be like Rallos Zek where many level 65 250+ AA characters have seen less PvP then bluebs on Legends from their Arena duels.
Contrarily (my word of the day), a FvF (faction versus faction) server such as Sullon Zek encourages PvP as it is no longer considered by the player base as anti social activity. In fact, it is what a player is supposed to do. The key, however, is making the rule set correctly. After some really good input from many folks, we have come up with an excellent rule set for a WoW FvF server as follows:
No PvP combat level restriction. We have found that any level restrictions on PvP servers lead to LOADS of exploits such as spying, invulnerable healing and buffing, training and other annoyances that take away from the PvP environment.
No PvP safe zones. If you want to be safe, go deep in Stormwind or Ironforge or some other large city with level 90 guards. Safe zones blow.
No damage degradation for spell damage based on levels. Resist degradation on movement or sleep, however, should exist. IE: Level 4 mages should be able to hit a level 65 warrior for his full nuke of¡Kwhat? 20? ƒº But he will likely never land a mez or snare.
A report function should be given to defenders (players in their own lands) where they can target and then report the presence and location of a targeted enemy player. This report will put a red flashing dot of the enemy¡¦s location for EVERYONE on their faction to see. The location will only be updated when a report is given of that enemy¡¦s location. The report will also send a message to all of the defending faction¡¦s players. This should allow defenders to know that their lands are being invaded and by whom. It will also allow low level defenders to get involved by tracking foes wherever they go.
Detailed stats kept on the internet based on kills and times killed should be kept.
Guards should be unexploitable (faction wise) and given see invis the closer they are to a home town.
For those of you clammering for an FFA PvP server, you will see how this would not work in WoW very well after you get to play it. Those playing it now, will agree that a FvF server would likely be enormous fun and the rule set I mentioned above should make it a blast. To be honest, it¡¦s MHO that ALL of the servers should follow the above rule set. If, however, they put in safe zones and level restrictions, look for it to blow chunks (PvP wise) just like every other game that tried that BS.