Just some more mullings about WoW PvP

[Meter]

Posted by Grayrage (mailto:grayrage@darkenbane.com)

I am approaching week 4 or 5 of my beta testing for WoW, although skipping a week because of out of town work caused me to go into withdrawal.

There has not been a change in my opinion about WoW. It’s still considered by this writer (whose opinion I highly rate ;p) to be the best MMP Game ever. It’s just an awesome piece of work which is very well done by the folks at Blizzard. I have played MANY other games for 1 week….even 2 and already gotten bored…or annoyed with them. Mark my words, Minions, WoW is gonna’ be the big dog on the MMPRPG market and those players who don’t get in early are gonna’ be playing catch up.

One of the more important things I have learned about game play so far is keeping our guild within a certain level range. Folks will not be grouping to far out of their level ranges in WoW and often won’t be grouping if they have already completed certain quests unless they just want to help other members complete a specific quest to catch up with them. Almost ALL leveling will occur doing quests so power leveling will likely not be as prevalent as seen in other games (there are other reasons power leveling won’t be happening much), but it seems likely that someone with help from a high level character won’t level all that much faster then a grouped guy without help.

Bottom line, I highly recommend taking a week off of work or school when this sucker goes live or you might risk falling behind the others and playing an unpleasant game of catch up! :D For the record, however, we likely will not institute a level restriction until after the first month of retail.

Ok, about PvP, I still stand by my statements that melees will in the end dominate PvP. In the beginning casters will own, but it won’t last and I suspect the majority of PvP will occur at the higher levels anyhow (on a FvF server). I am not going to outlaw folks from making Warlocks or Mages, but I will continue warning folks that after 6 months or even less, I project the days of these classes dominating will be over. So if you are playing WoW for the long run (like most folks in DB), I would seriously consider this before rolling up a Mage or Warlock.

If anyone has any specific questions regarding WoW and what I have encountered so far in it, feel free to click the button at the bottom of this article and asking me.

[yaarii]

What about the feasability of multiple caster gank squads? I remember still owning people in everquest even though snares and roots didn't stick (fear and charm weren't even allowed), and groups of wizards, mages, chanters and necro's tended to totally pwn anyone because of the very high dps.

Remember that wizards were the worst dueling class in eq, imo at least....but they owned when it came time to pk.

Are you basing your judgements on duels only or are you thinking about the bigger picture of groups of people?

I highly favour playing a caster (mage or warlock) as I'm not really a fan of melee (ping times screw me over a bit as well, but that's another story).

So what's the story with all caster groups?

[Saradin]

Yaarii this game operates on on a "if a melee can reach me then I am dead" point of view from a pure caster. If you don't get off a fear or a frost nova or a sleep etc, you will die. Each physical blow landed on you hurts your casting bar making it hard to channel through melee, especially through rogues. Throw in multiple types of interrupts and it is very very unlikely you will ever get a spell off. Resists aren't even in yet and one of my warrior friends said he can three shot a mage similar level ( lvl 29~ ). A melee kills you faster than you will kill him hands down if he reaches you.

To address your caster gank group, it would work. But you also have to realize that any melee class oriented group will mop the floor with you if you have even numbers if they are even semi prepared. All they have to do is send one tank on each mage/warlock and it's game over. You can also only fight as long as you have mana and downtime on that group would be horrid. Melee never run out of sword.

So play what you want. I agree with Gray and in fact I said it long before he even created a char in beta that it will be a priest/melee game with the exception of maybe mage aoe's that could rock shit. You will still be able to gank as a mage ( only caster class that gets invis cept for potions that have long cooldowns) but I think a well balanced group that has staying power will be more favorable in this game. Casters will be needed so don't get brainwashed into not playing one. Just play what you like but I'd prefer an all melee squad over the an all caster squad like the RZ days that is for sure.

[yaarii]

Well if there is still a place for the caster then that's ok, even if it's only as support.

Thanks for clarifying that :cool:

[GrayRage]

OK Sar hit it right on the nose pretty much. A Mage and a Warlock are awesome fun to play. But like EQ (and especially if u played SZ to get in on high end PvP), the casters will primarily be support in fights. If they do catch someone alone and hurt, they will have pretty good success ganking them. But in a fight where they know your coming, it's time for you to run. Basically, the casters will be the guarilla fighters...sneaking up and taking quick gank kills.

In the organized fights (we are talking about server domination type shit), Melee/Healers will win the day. Casters will be the first targets since they are juicy low AC low hps...and there won't be much they can do to avoid death unless they plan to drain all their healers of mana quickly,

Why will the casters not compare to melees? Well, to be honest it's almost mandatory by the very nature of the game. Let me explain chronologically for yah:

1. In the early days of the game (beta and retail) casters will dominate. They will OWN. Their roots will stick, snares will hit, mezzes will work and fears will land. They will basically run around and dominate anything.

2. Everyone will make casters. (people like casters more anyhow, but with them dominating so ghard, even more melees will reroll casters.

3. The domination will be emphasized even more by all the people rolling casters because of their PvP dominance.

4. A public outcry will ensue. The boards will be flooded with cries to nerf the casters in PvP.

5. Casters (and resists will be nerfed) BEFORE PEOPLE EVEN HAVE THE UBER GEAR.

6. Melees will begin getting uber gear. Even without uber gear meleee will be resisting (and using potions to avoid) the most important caster spells (roots, snares mezzes), but with resist gear, these spells simply won;t work on them (and potions/gear will render them immune anyhow).

7. Casters without a method of immobilizing a melee will die.

This is how i see the evolution of PvP balance. And it's not necessarily a bad one as the alternative would be for EVERYONE to be a caster int he game (who the fuck would be a melee if you stoff rooted in every PvP fight?). Casters will still get plenty of kills because of their ranged attacks and likely can run from melees....but this is what they WILL be doing alot of...running from melees.

They WILL get pets...which will help them they can run form melees while their pets beat on them too.

IN any case, casters will not be worthless, but in the end, I believe dominance of the server will be based on melees/helaer...not gank squads. Otherwise the entire game will be filled with Mages ;p

[Arkons]

you're probably right Gray, but unlike some other companies I know, Blizzard doesn't have a problem massively overhauling game design in order to change inherent flaws.

Take TFT for instance, they actually performed a second beta for it all together to balance it out. I'm sure there might be minor imbalances in 1on1 fights, but in the long haul I doubt anyone will be upset with the effectiveness of their characters in PvP.

Just my take, I don't even have internet to play the game.

[GrayRage]

I don't even have internet to play the game.

This u need to rectify ;p