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View Full Version : Sullon Zek Thread, Sony Boards


Kalu Werwutz
03-01-2002, 09:38 AM
Everyone should express their opinions and suggestions concerning Sullon Zek PvP in the new thread that was opened on the Sony Boards:

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/everquest/Forum6/HTML/000854.html

This is what I just posted there:

First of all this server is constantly losing people especially in the ranks of newt and good alligned players which makes the discrepance in numbers between evils and goods/newts even more overwhelming. It is becoming horrible if you are not playing at prime times, most zones are very, very empty. So in my opinion it has to be done something and it has to be done fast, we are almost reaching the point where you are (at least at some times of the day) not even able to find people in range to group with (as a newt, might be even worse as a goodie)! This finally will even cause the core people to leave who are very happy with SZ as it is and then this server will die very fast.

Because the other three Zek-Servers are also very empty I suggest the following:
- Shut down one Zek-Server, make three Zek-Servers, one with the Sullon Zek rule set, one with the Rallos Zek rule set and one with the Tallon Zek/Vallon Zek rule set. Allow anyone from any of the four former Zek-Servers to move to ANY of the new three Zek-Servers (but still only allow 1 char on SZ per account) once with all gear.
- If the player basis after the move is still low compared to the Non-PvP-Servers allow people from any of the Non-PvP-Servers to move log once to the new Zek-Servers with some penalties, for example they are only allowed to move ONE char with three items of their choice and half of their money or five items and a quarter of their money. First come, first serve until you reached the amount of players that is playing on an average Non-PvP-Server. Might be a lot more complicating than just having them to move log, but we are talking about rescueing a server and it would be very unfair to have fully geared NToV people on any of the new Zek-Servers who acquired their gear with little to no risk on a blue server. Repeat this maybe after 3 months or half a year if the player basis is becoming lower again.

Balance the teams. Balancing does not mean to give one team an experience advantage over one of the two other teams nor does it mean to have evils fight evils. Those solutions are only simple, easier to implement workarounds for the real problems. GrayRage/Grunter made a great posting concerning this topic (although I disagree with some other points ;-P) and I repeat it here:

************************************************** ****************
Before the server went live many people pointed out the glaring problems with the teams. All pretty much unanimously agreed the Evil Team was by far the most favored and the Goody Team was doomed. Sony ignored the posts and continued as planned which ultimately turned out to be WRONG. The reason is as follows:

Team Make Up and geography -

Evil - This team has Iksars, Ogres, Trolls and DEs (99%) all to themselves. They SHARE the following races: Barbarians (33%), Humans (33%), Erudites (33%), Gnomes (33%), Humans (33%), Wood Elves (33%) and Half Elves (33%). This gives them 4 exclusive races and 11 available races. This gives them 3 classes with Instant Kill abilities (HT, Manaburn, Lifeburn). This gave them the starting areas virtually UNCONTESTED of Nektulos, LS (with Sol and Nerana dungeons), Fearot (with CT dungeon), Innothule Swamp (with Guk) and ALL of Kunark. Their mandatory (where conflict was GOING to happen) PvP borders consisted of only fighting in WC and SK against the Neutral Team for those zones.

Neutral - This team has Halfings (99%) and Dorfs exclusively to themselves. They SHARE the following races: DE (1%), Barbarian (33%), Half Elf (33%), Wood Elf (33%), Human (33%), High Elf (50%), Erudite (33%) and Gnomes (33%). This gives them 2 exclusive races and allows them the chance to be 10 races total. They have one instant kill class (manaburn).The original uncontested zones included Misty (with RE Dungeon), HPH and area, Butcherblock (with Unrest). The PvP border and mandatory conflict zones included WC (evils), SK (evils), BB/Fay zone (goodies), EF/BB/QH (goodies), SF/LF (goodies/evils).

Goody - This team currently has only Cat People as exclusively to them (but NO exclusive races when server was born). They had the option of being the following races: Barb (33%), Human (33%), Gnome (33%), High Elf (50%), Wood Elf (33%), Half Elf (33%) and Erudites (33%). This gives them ONE exclusive race and the availability to be 8 races. Geographically the goodies had ZERO uncontested areas and eventually carved out a spot in EF/Perma as well as Gfay/LFay/KK/Crushbone. The goodies always either fought over zones or contested zones with Neutrals only but in ALL of their zones because they always bordered neutral uncontested areas. This is what has/had lead tot he animosity between the Neutral/Goody teams.

The evil team having 4 races exclusive, 3 insta kill classes and 11 races potentially for creation exceeds the Neutral teams 2 exclusive races, 10 available races and 1 instant kill class and FAR exceeds the good team's 1 exclusive race (which came long after SZ was born), 8 available races and single insta kill class. Additionally, the evil team's multitude of uncontested zones early in the life of the server gave them the ability to avoid PvP entirely if they so desired whilst the Neutral and goody teams were constantly battling for lands. For these reasons, I am comfortable in stating that Sony failed to create our server with balanced Teams and is the primary reason why it's population dropped so dramatically (because if the teams were balanced Neutral and Goody would have the same numbers as evil).

A better team makeup would have been as follows (and one that can still exist if you follow my proposed solution):

Evil - Ogre, Troll, Iksar, DE, Human (33%), Erudite (33%)
Neutral - Halfing, Gnome, Dorf, Barbarian, Human (33%), Erudite (33%)
Goody - High Elf, Wood Elf, Half Elf, Cat Dude, Human (33%), Erudite (33%)

The only class restrictions would be as follows:

SK - Evil only
Ranger - Neutral/Goody Only
Paladin - Goody/Neutral Only

For people already on SZ allow them to switch their race to remain on their team (IE: DE wizzies changing to Gnome).
************************************************** ****************

Adjust the basic abilities of some race/class combinations for a bit to make them more attractive, for example before spending any ability points while building a new char an ogre warrior has 140 Strength and 132 Stamina while a gnome warrior has only 70 Strength and 80 Stamina. In this example let the ogre have like 120 Strength and 112 Stamina and the gnome like 80 Strength and 90 Stamina, thats still a huge enough difference between those two races. Weaken some of the stronger races and strengthen some of the weaker races and of course this should apply to all existing chars on all servers.

Kalu Werwutz
03-01-2002, 09:39 AM
There was way less complains about PvP not being balanced before the release of Luclin. In my opinion the most unbalancing problems with Luclin concerning PvP are Manaburn/Lifeburn and horses. Evils have little problems anymore to successfully attack the former safe neutral controlled high level zone Velketor's Labyrinth. A classic gank is as follow: Evil_Lifeburn_Necromancer_00 is able to simply use the Nexus Port to Great Divide, travels unchecked with his Selo Horse to the zone to Velketor's Labyrinth, enters the zone, hits his Lifeburn button on Random_Victim_00, zones out and escapes from his pursuers by running up the hill in front of Velketor's (hillbugging). This example includes everything why neutrals constantly have to defend their former home and most times lose the fight: Easy access to Great Divide (Portal, Nexus Gate), Horses, Manaburn/Lifeburn, Hillbugging. While I of course don't complain about the easy access (we also have easier access to Kunark now (Nexus Gate to Dreadlands)), the other three points have to be issued.

Horses.
- To mount a horse should take like 5 or 6 seconds and should be immediately interrupted if someone casts ANY spell on you or attacks you. If you enter a new zone you should get dismounted and have to mount your horse again.
- If you are riding a horse, ANY casting of a spell or hitting the Attack Button should automatically dismount you.
These two simple solutions will help to make PvP a lot more balanced in a fight between a charakter with and a charakter without a horse.

Manaburn/Lifeburn.
Wizards and Necromancers are powerful enough with their regular spells and have enough ganking abilities, they really don't need Manaburn/Lifeburn. Manaburn/Lifeburn should not be able to be casted on Player Characters.

Hillbugging.
If there is any way to fix this, PLEASE! As a melee you don't have little to no chance to fight a caster constantly hillbugging you.

Golem Wands.
- Make Golem Wands LORE and NO DROP.
- Implement a new purchasable Pumice with 1.0 casting time at a price of around 100 PP and see how this works out.
Casters claim that they are in most occasions unable to fight Golem wanding melees, because if they stop and stand still to cast they die against a well-equipped melee very fast without buffs.
Melees claim that they cannot fight a well-buffed caster especially because of Levitate and SOW if they have not the possiblity to fastly dispell them.
So there has to be found a compromise. Regular Pumices are too slow and too easy to be interrupted, if you have to strip of the buffs of a well-buffed, levitating wizard and have to use 3 charges of your Pumice until you dispelled his Levitate, you are already done with the fight, because you are at half of your health because of their fast, rarely to interrupt nukes.

Summon Corpse.
Actually it is a joke that team Neutral and team Good have to lose points (by investing one Insignia) to Summon a corpse and team Evil doesn't. The solution above presented by GrayRage/Grunter will fix this (Good and Neutral necromancers will be possible). I don't understand why the spell Summon Corpse hasn't been given to magicians. Instead you implemented this unfair Summon Corpse Potion workaound...

Shadow Step.
You are not able to track a player anymore if they shadowstepped, yondered or gated within a zone, this has to be issued.

Zone plugging/Water Fighting.
- It will be a major disadvantage for non-gating classes if you are taking away their only possible escapes from/during a fight if you don't want to spend your time farming Cazic Thule Gate Potions all day. If melees are not allowed to plug anymore, then Wizards should not be allowed to Shadowstep/Yonder or Gate anymore. Besides this if you crash while zoning (which happens still very often to some people) and you show up Link Dead and Experience-Killable in the new zone (like some people suggested), you will punish people with a bad connection even more.
- Not being able to cast on people who are in water when you are on dry land and vice versa is in my opinion a great tactical element in this game, that lacks a lot of tactics. Yes, I know you levitating wizards want to gank that poor swimming melee that is not able to reach you from within the water nor is able to escape because he is slower in water without dispelling your levitate. Isn't it a bit more challenging the way it is at the moment? Oh I forgot, you lazy wizards want no tactics. :-)

Besides this leave the classes as they are, if you fix the things I mentioned above the classes are balanced enough as they are. Some classes have more ganking abilities than others, but those have the advantage of more HPs and be able to better equip themselves and defend themselves. If casters claim, that melees are overpowered when they acquired NToV gear and Sleepers Tomb weapons and their damage should be nerfed then make up your mind. In an arena fight melee against a caster normally the melee always should win this fight. Why, you ask? The melee does not have the ablility to escape a fight (with the exception of zone plugging, but often a zone is not nearby) and the melee has to chase his opponent (while the caster has to try to leave behind the melee a bit and hit a button). Oh I forgot again, you lazy wizards just want to be able to stand still, channel all your Lures while the Melee tries to interrupt you (which rarely works if you don't use/have Stun Kick or Slam) and tries to beat down your epic shield (which he couldn't dispell in time because you don't want him to have Golem Wands) and be able to nuke him down while he is beating on you. True, this way you are able to gank more people in less time (/wave scoreboard, current Top 20 Overall: 6 Wizards, 7 Druids, 1 Necromancer, 2 Rogues, 1 Ranger, 1 Shadowknight, 1 Warrior).

Long posting, but I still like playing Everquest a lot and I don't really want to play on any other server than Sullon Zek and this server is about to die, so this had to be said. :-)

If there are any mistakes in my grammar, chosing of words, writings or anything else: I am german. ;-)

Kalu Werwutz
Lvl 60 Neutral Rogue
Darkenbane Company

JustHyacinth
03-01-2002, 10:39 AM
Well after reading and posting on the Sullon Zek board I feel like all of the issues were brought up. Besides a few posts from Ran Leader Of Malignant and a few other evils (who obviously don't want this game to be fair and balanced) everyone made good points. I don't think we could put things more clearly befor verant and sonys face's. So, IMO, their lack of fixing problems is simply a way of them saying "WE DONT CARE". /shrug. I guess we will just have to <B> Wait </B> and see.

***Enraged Hyacinth***

JustHyacinth
03-01-2002, 10:41 AM
Rofl, I try to put something in bold <B></B>. WTF i cant use html code ;( gan

***Enraged Hyacinth***

Rabdallas
03-01-2002, 11:57 AM
Use [B*] hdkfshdkfs [/B*] (- *) instead.

Manie
03-01-2002, 01:12 PM
Dude, I love this guy he has the best idea I've read so far in this thread.. Maybe Verant will put em on there pay roll?


4thSon
Station Member posted 02-28-2002 06:23 AM user search report post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How to fix Sullon Zek:
Help Wolfpack get Shadowbane to Gold status as soon as possible. Then close down the EQ PvP servers.


4thSon

Marqus
03-01-2002, 03:20 PM
Lady D closed the thread but left us with some very encouraging last words..

I am going to lock this thread as well, and do what has been requested. 4 nights next week I will be holding PvP discussion meetings for each of the PvP servers in EverQuest chat. I will be announcing the times and dates of those chats hopefully later today or Monday morning.
I am not commenting because I am listening, I want to hear what others think, so does the development team.

Normally I will not debate on issues, but I will state this.

There is about as much chance of talking me into believing that the darks are an evenly balanced team in means of raw numbers and starting locations as me believing manaburn is perfectly tuned for PvP combat. =)

Those that wish to smite me for those words, I will see you at the discussions. =)

Lady Daegarmo