Vega
10-26-2004, 05:13 AM
I just thought I would post this to save DB members the cost of buying EQ2 and feeding money to lame ass SOE only to quit shortly thereafter... I have played EQ2 beta and agree with all of the statements from fellow beta testers listed below. You may ask, why did you even play it, there is no PvP in this game! Well, those Blizzard fags never let me in beta and I was pretty damn bored and I had a EQ2 beta account. It is a long read, but a good one if you had any thoughts about purchasing this game.
EQ2 has turned into the Fisher Price of MMORPG's. SOE's gone too far, they have gone overboard on tweaking every encounter, every player experience, every zone.
They have EVERYTHING figured out.. you will play how they want you to play..!
They have also taken the role of guardian (mother/Father) and under the impression we are like kids, saying "Here you go, now don't hurt yourself" knowing that they already childproofed everything for you. The game is way to linear... and constricting and controlling. Who are they making this game for... the 12yr old Sony Playstation crowd.
SOE has already stated that some 2 Million people has played Everquest over the 5.5 years it been live. And that Everquest2(EQ2) is not a competing platform to Everquest (EQ) and that their target audioence for EQ2 was the many (1.4 million) players who were turned off by the Original Everquest at one point or another. Now, almost everyone universally knows the demegraphics of when the EQ accounts skyrocketed on E-bay and PlayerAuctions sites... and when the big turn arounds started to happen.
Old School EQ players started leaving the game directly after Velious expansion...! The game got soo dumb, so easy and so untraditional with Luclin that people left in troves. The game got cheaper and the expansion were about money and non of them compared to the quality and content offered in Kunark. I am of that Ilk.
EQ had it's problems and dislikes, but they were trivial at best and nothing more than an annoyance.
Here comes EQ2 marching on sight and touts it's incredible graphics and animations... but the gameplay it not humble, it is NOT true to what the 10 of thousands of us are looking for.
Locked combat...? Let me run a little scenorio for yaz:
In EverQuest you could come over a sand dune and have a Sand Giant comming after you. He's clearly out-of-your-league but you noticed as you turn and run that he's been wounded and at half life (45%). Your hearts pounding but you decide to turn and face him with a root.. and test your skillz. [arrow]! You take off running again, with the aid of your newly aquired journeyman's boots, but he's hit you hard and you going to think twice before turning and engaging him again... though your heart is still POUNDING from even standing up to him. As your fleeing, you notice "others" have gathered in persuit to be able to document your brevity in bravery. Encourage by the gallery of people and knowing your nearing the zone wall you gather up enough courage to try another root and at least walk out of the zone with dignity.
Root Sticks...! and without thinking your first nuke lands. Others encourage by your bravness and Heroics decide to charge the Giant aswell. Somewhere you receive a heal and the Sand Giant is severly wounded, you let another nuke fly as he is being overwhelmed by the "beehive" of others. Moments later, the Menace falls... he claimed a few lives but he's dead now. /shouts erupt, words of congratulations and bravado erupts from the crowd at hand... others come running to be witness of the fallen Giant. I the midths of the confusion you regain composer and claim your rightful prestige and Sandgiant Killed and loot him..!
This cannot happen in EQ2... nor will it EVER !!
The sense of Community in EQ2 beta is GONE... you don't even pay attention to what other people are doing, nor do you care. EQ2 is a game with 2,000 people playing a single-player RPG.
There is so much wrong with EQ2's gameplay and the beta boards are bombarded with pleas of dispair. Here are some re-posts that I feel mirror my own belief (authors unknown):
"I suspect that the problem here is that many of us beta testers are either EQ players, or mmorpg players. obviously, otherwise why would we be here? problem is that, near as i can tell, this game is designed for those folks who both do not want to play EQ (why steal customers from your own product), and who don't really play mmorpgs at all. this game plays, for me, like the mmorpg for folks who always wanted to play one, but found it a little "too much", for whatever reason. the reason i'm feel this? because i am one of the aforementioned. i've played other mmorpgs, but they never really worked for me, they were always a little too much, too testing, too much effort. this game is on rails - simple as that, at least compared to any other mmorpg i've ever played. and that's why it works for me. i'll be buying this, sadly for exactly the reasons everyone else in this thread may not be. to be honest, i'd prefer it the other way around, not for the sake of SOE, but for the sake of all the other dedicated "real" players out there who are clearly more willing to put their heart in than i am.
it's a great shame for players with a heart and a passion, but this is an mmorpg without either. for that reason i'm able to enjoy it on my own (shallow) terms, but i fully sympathise with those that find it falls far short of their more passionate standards."
***********
"Here, here.
I think the original poster has more playing exp in EQ2 than some of the designers. And with my limited exp playing this game, I wholeheartedly agree. EQ2 is a step backwards in design. In fact, I think it a slam to its namesake. I really hope the team gets it together and stops worrying about the bottom line, release date, competition -- and starts focusing on the player's feedback, the mechanics, and overall feel of the game. Which imo, is lifeless."
**********
" This is almost EXACTLY what I have been saying ALL this time in so many posts. This is exactly what Everquest II is, a linear, do as your told, spoonfed rpg.
You really ARE in their world now. The worst part of that fact is you're also restricted to only doing exactly what THEY want done. I hate to have to ever say that WoW is looking better and better all the time...
/pray for Vanguard"
************
"Have to totally agree with Logrus. nice post. I have played many games going back to text based games such as Zork and Larn, The thing I find that captures people is the ability to make us NoT "Joe Average" we want to escape from reality for a moment and be more than just average.
We may only achieve average in one sense, but in games like EqLive we had the ability to jump in and be the hero for those with much less seasons.
I feel Im somewhere between powergamer and casual player, played EqLive since pre-kunark and played about 30 hours a week. with multiple level 65 toons. I found myself very engrossed into EqLive up till the release of PoP which I felt was added content for "uber guild members"
I know many people have quit EqLive because after many years it became a game for those in uber guilds who could comit 5-7 days a week - 6+ hrs. for the rest of us the content became boring, weeks grinding AA, killing the same mob over and over again gets very boring. I was really looking forward to the release of Eq2, many great concepts, beautiful graphics, and what seemed to be a solid foundation for a long lasting game.
I think Eq2 could still be that great game, but if it gets released next month it will be a long term disaster, and a lot of hard work by the Dev team will be have been spent in vain. Not to meantion the corporate officers will not see the "cash cow" that Eq2 can be by holding off and letting the Dev team work with some of the serious issues at hand. The Dev team has been working very hard and I'm impressed what they have done since I joined beta. Please listen to the Beta Testers, let corporate management know if they want to see good return on this investment they need to let the team finish the job before release.
Beta 1
20 enchanter 17 warrior 11 rogue 7 priest"
***********
"lol i just skiped all the way ot the end did not read 7 pages worth
first of all i agree with Logrus on this this coming from an EQ veteran.
lack of choice is what realy irks me..
1) no more uncertainty when pulling, they realy made it idiot proof.
2) subclass distinctions should be more obvious then this else do without it.
3) players are being told how to play so on and so forth
a) lvl restriction on zones
b) zones with a timer
c) lvl restrictions on items ( if am strong enough to defeat it i can use its loot. simple no brainerlogic)
what hapened to having the freedom, heck if am lvl 12 and stupid enough or couragious enough to survive the treck to visit feerot or what not i should be allowed to. instead i need to do a quest to get flaged to enter? btw that is the only reason i quit EQ all those time sinks.
someone mentioned it feels like we are being hand held and the game is REALY idiot proof, you CAN NOT mess.
i just need the element of the unknown back and this game will be awsome, it is already much better then any beta heck it is more solid then SWG in release.
just my 2 cents"
***************
"I already made my decision. I will NOT buy EverQuest 2.
The reasons are many. Developers and people in charge not being able to give a statement to a HUGE uproar in the community. I find it almost hilarious that the only statement we got was pointing out a bug we already were aware of.
Ive been SOE customer for too long to be satisfied with, excuse my language, halfassed excuses and promises anymore..SOE never holds a promise.
SOE has been sitting on the "Best MMORPG EVER" throne for tooooo long - I get the feeling they are getting lazy. Time to pass that throne on to one of the TRUE Next Generation MMOs that are coming.
To sum it up, in my eyes they have utterly failed in making an interesting game. They sure made a good kiddie game - but nothing for someone grown up enough to make their own decisions.
*puts on her fire-resist gear as she feels she will need it now*"
********************
"Eq1 allowed tactics to happen, eq2 has put in safeguards to keep people from taking any but the devs intended linear route to victory. Lemmie give you examples of tactics making a change in the way something is fought. You and a group enter a dungeon, there are about 30 mobs between you and the named mob your cleric needs to kill for a quest, but your warr has to go to sleep in 30 mins...is there anyway possible to get that named mob dead within 30 mins? in EQ1 there were always options if you were smart. There was always "more than one way to skin any cat" if you thought about it long enough. So in eq 1 you send the ranger training down the hall as a diversion, and have him pop a snare on the named you needed so it will trail far behind its brethren, and as the ranger and 30+ gnolls runs past, your group grabs the named, out of aggro range of the rest of them, and pulls it out down another corridor to kill it as the other mobs start walking back to their spawn locations after the ranger zones, mission accomplished, because of diversionary-tactics. In eq2 however, you would just pack up the group and go to bed, theres no way but the obvious way.
Tactics are about lots of choices, about there being more than one way to get at something, or beat something. EQ2 has the tactics blocked out of the combat so that 10% of the population dont get smart and learn shortcuts to the devs "intended numbers".
The HO wheel is a symptom of the problem, its not tactics, its tic tac toe for dummies. if the real game (combat) didnt suck, they wouldnt have to duct tape an idiotic minigame in in the corner of the combat game to distract you from its simplicity and the bordom it inspires. They might as well have "gems" start whenever you turn on auto-attack."
********************
"The HO wheel is anti-tactics, the HO wheel is a minigame that has nothing to do with the actual combat in EQ2. You may think that pressing "forward", "down", "downforward"+ "high punch" to make your fighter do a "ha-do-ken" is strategy, you might think that a group each pressing one of the buttons in slow succession to make one reall big "ha-doooooooo-ken" to blow the mobs up is some example of "smart group tactics", but its not, its pathetic arcade/console kiddie [arrow] they ripped off from that children's MMO FFXI.
1 orc? 3 orcs? 5 orcs? not the point, sure 3 is harder than 1 =P but how did you get 3? how did you get 1? were there 10 orcs in the camp and the monk brokedown the pull to 3? were there 3 mobs standing around the edge and one walked off away from the camp far enough for a paitent ranger to pick him off solo? nope, In EQ2 i can tell you exactly what happened, the "puller" hit the 3 group or the single solo mob with his stick and bought the predetermined number of mobs, set by a level designer 3 months ago, back to camp to be gang-raped, just like every other braindead player thats ever been near that camp.
EQ1 could be dumb and pointless sometimes, but it depended on who you were playing with.The dumbness wasnt pre-programmed into the game for everyone to "enjoy'. Not everyone lived in bastion of thunder 24/7. You could change the way an encounter was gonna be with your brain, not with kiddie streetfighter combos.
The designers overdoing the micromanagment is also one of the reasons classes are so stupid and cookie-cutter, cant give rangers a lull...mobs are pre grouped, cant give monks an FD that works for the same reason, better nerf snare so people cant kite, we know how bad that would be =P. So rangers have 5 different ways to wack the mob with their stick, same with warrs, clerics change it up with a heal button, and mages get to punch a mob from far away and everyone gets a buff =P.
anyone remember what happened when there'd be 4 hours without a single 50+ cleric logging on in EQ1, people would get creative and try something different like aggro kiting stuff, sometimes the [arrow] would work sometimes theyd die, but they were thinking outside of the box, because that was allowed in eq1. Here that type of stuff is gone, pre-chewed group, pre-chewed fights, pre-chewed classes, all pre-chewed food, no flavor."
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Myrrdinn wrote:
Been playing EQ2 for a few weeks now, haven't been to one group that use skillful tactics.
Why? Is it that we lack a pool of skillful players?
No.
There is no room for tactics.
In classic EQ, plenty of room for tact. What happened? AI system.
In EQLive, there is no set amount of mobs artificially grouped together. Verant did a superb job of AI implemention.
Snakes don't help out each other when one of them gets attacked. Gnolls do, they are social animals. How many comes with your pull is dependent on several factors:
1. Scout. Do you know if the mob has another friend around the corner?
2. Skill. A skillful puller is as valuable to a guild/raid as the pilot of a fighter jet. Do we chain pull? Do we feign death?
AI was believable in EQLive. There was luring, there was picking-off-the-loners after the lure.
But EQ2 right now, you can attack a goblin who's standing next to another goblin with no consequence at all if he's tagged "solo". Or what's sad is attacking a goblin who's standing in the middle of a goblin camp, and half of the camp comes, not neccesarily the ones closest to your target. It is artificial, it's weak, it needs to be changed.
For those of us who want solo contents, please note that it's the the problem of the game lacking solo tagged "social" mobs. The problem is we don't have enough solo mobs to kill other than social mobs. I think group/solo tagging system should be replaced by a system that's up to par with the 6-year-old AI system in EQLive.
As it stands, the hardest part of grouping is to come up with a good mix of classes. After you put together the group, the task is the same, you pull, you tank whatever comes, and hope your priests don't run out of mana before the mob(s) run out of HP.
What's the tact in that? The only coordination needed seems to be Heroic Opportunities. EQ was bad enough that each character was valued by the equipments it possessed, but what seemed equally valued was the skill of the player controlling the character.
In EQ2, be ready to be judged solely on your equipment. As I do not really see where a skill of the player comes in. The game has no room for it.
Everquest II is a carebear game... I hate to say it, as much as I have at one point fallen in love with the concept of Everquest II, I know I'm going to play it for a couple of months, beat the game, then move on to a different mmo.
The zing that EQlive had is something I'm still looking for. Guess I have to wait for Vanguard. Don't get me wrong, EQII is a very well designed game, it's lots of fun and beautiful to look at and experience. I plan on purchasing and playing it, the thing is I don't see myself playing it any longer than I would a really good single player game, a few months then on the shelves ya go.
Just doesn't have enough choice factor and depth that EQlive had, nothing more really, nothing wrong or bad with that, just the way it is for me and I know for many others out there.
*********************************
"
Baaddare wrote:
Well i played eq from kunark to this past may. EQIi to me seems ot require more skil and more tactics than eqlive ever did. Again instead fo sya 1 blue coen there might be 3 greens here instead which requires more thought in how to attack them. Groups have to work togeather more> Frist thre is the wheel which requires not only patiance to use but the knowledge of which HO to use and when it let it go off. Second with each classes skils complimenting each others teamwork is required to maximize their use. As for the idea of a EQ and EQII type server. Again this is not eq it is not suppose to be eq it is not aimed at pleasign peopel that love eq but the people that left eq or do not want to play eq.
Then you've only been playing with the newer tweaks and watered down expansions of EQlive. Being able to walk into a zone and have no problem single pulling blue cons that hit for 800 and have a million hit points and give tremendous rewards is something new to the game. There was 50 TIMES more challenge in the game pre PoP.
MOST players NEVER walked into Solusek A for example in their early 20's to late 30's for one sole reason, it was TOO hard and risky to fight in. Even during Velious time though it was one of the best sources of rare drops and experience for around that level range in the entire game. I used to get more reward from having a group of very competent friends sit in different camp areas in Sol A than most anyone else. I had a lot of friends and family members who played EQ (some who still do), who STILL wouldn't set foot in Sol A. As my uncle so plainly put it: "it's just too hard, there are easier ways to get far better experience at that level than fight mobs that run and train, shaman mobs, wizard mobs, mobs that require a skilled enchanter and puller.
See? Straight from a current source, it's EASIER now days to get experience in EASIER zones with higher rewards.
Verant's EQ was all about risk versus reward. SoE changed that motto down to reward without the risk.
It's still a very entertaining and fun game for a great deal many people, there is nothing wrong with making a game that isn't overly challenging, watering down a game and giving it an entirely new purpose did make me mad though. Well, that's why I don't play anymore anyway
One thing that TOTALLY stands out that you said though, let me quote you again: Again this is not eq it is not suppose to be eq it is not aimed at pleasign peopel that love eq but the people that left eq or do not want to play eq.
In my opinion if this was the truth of the number one purpose of Everquest II, they have failed miserably. Every single person I know who quit EQlive quit because they ruined it with newbie armor, free binds, free teleports, easy to acquire high end gear, overly powerful AA abilities, the bazaar, never ever having your corpse vanish on you with all your gear, characters under level 10 not having to get their corpse, the list is so large it hurts to remember.
Lets see the TRUTH about EQII here for a second. The goal of EQII is to continue to toss every aspect that made EQlive an initial success, everything Brad McQuaid did for EQ with his vision, keep all that thrown RIGHT out the window, add pretty graphics, remove single pulling, twinking, power leveling and zerging (at the expense of giving players ANY kind of choice), then resell the game."
*************
"=> "It went Everquest - Kunark - Velious - Luclin - Planes of Power - Who Cares - Who Cares - Who Cares?" <=
/snicker, pretty much.
I left for the same reasons you did Nardasia.
There seems to be an assumption on the part of the devs that most who left EQ1 did so because the game became "too complex".
Most folks of my acquaintance left because EQ1 became ridiculously easy, and mudflation was out of control.
BTW, people compare this game to Everquest1 for many reasons, here are two:
#1 its called EVERQUEST2 (although Diablo3 or CoH2 might be more apt)
#2 everyone compares everything to EQ1, it set a standard for the genre."
*********************
So sift threw that... and decide if SEO is taking EQ2 in the direction that good for you.... [arrow] I wish Brad McQuaid never left...!! So in short, EQ2 is the most stale, uninspired, linear, dumb-downed huge time sink ever to wear the tag of MMORPG yet... I predict EQ2 will fail over time. At the beginning there will be enough care bears to support it but then when the reality of the boredom of the game kicks in, they will surely leave. And I hope it does fail, crap like this leads the MMORPG genre in the wrong direction. This game will NEVER have PvP. The game would have to be completely redesigned for any hint of working PvP. It is so convoluted in its sheer bluebiness mechanics PvP will never happen. EQ2 is dead before it even goes live...
EQ2 has turned into the Fisher Price of MMORPG's. SOE's gone too far, they have gone overboard on tweaking every encounter, every player experience, every zone.
They have EVERYTHING figured out.. you will play how they want you to play..!
They have also taken the role of guardian (mother/Father) and under the impression we are like kids, saying "Here you go, now don't hurt yourself" knowing that they already childproofed everything for you. The game is way to linear... and constricting and controlling. Who are they making this game for... the 12yr old Sony Playstation crowd.
SOE has already stated that some 2 Million people has played Everquest over the 5.5 years it been live. And that Everquest2(EQ2) is not a competing platform to Everquest (EQ) and that their target audioence for EQ2 was the many (1.4 million) players who were turned off by the Original Everquest at one point or another. Now, almost everyone universally knows the demegraphics of when the EQ accounts skyrocketed on E-bay and PlayerAuctions sites... and when the big turn arounds started to happen.
Old School EQ players started leaving the game directly after Velious expansion...! The game got soo dumb, so easy and so untraditional with Luclin that people left in troves. The game got cheaper and the expansion were about money and non of them compared to the quality and content offered in Kunark. I am of that Ilk.
EQ had it's problems and dislikes, but they were trivial at best and nothing more than an annoyance.
Here comes EQ2 marching on sight and touts it's incredible graphics and animations... but the gameplay it not humble, it is NOT true to what the 10 of thousands of us are looking for.
Locked combat...? Let me run a little scenorio for yaz:
In EverQuest you could come over a sand dune and have a Sand Giant comming after you. He's clearly out-of-your-league but you noticed as you turn and run that he's been wounded and at half life (45%). Your hearts pounding but you decide to turn and face him with a root.. and test your skillz. [arrow]! You take off running again, with the aid of your newly aquired journeyman's boots, but he's hit you hard and you going to think twice before turning and engaging him again... though your heart is still POUNDING from even standing up to him. As your fleeing, you notice "others" have gathered in persuit to be able to document your brevity in bravery. Encourage by the gallery of people and knowing your nearing the zone wall you gather up enough courage to try another root and at least walk out of the zone with dignity.
Root Sticks...! and without thinking your first nuke lands. Others encourage by your bravness and Heroics decide to charge the Giant aswell. Somewhere you receive a heal and the Sand Giant is severly wounded, you let another nuke fly as he is being overwhelmed by the "beehive" of others. Moments later, the Menace falls... he claimed a few lives but he's dead now. /shouts erupt, words of congratulations and bravado erupts from the crowd at hand... others come running to be witness of the fallen Giant. I the midths of the confusion you regain composer and claim your rightful prestige and Sandgiant Killed and loot him..!
This cannot happen in EQ2... nor will it EVER !!
The sense of Community in EQ2 beta is GONE... you don't even pay attention to what other people are doing, nor do you care. EQ2 is a game with 2,000 people playing a single-player RPG.
There is so much wrong with EQ2's gameplay and the beta boards are bombarded with pleas of dispair. Here are some re-posts that I feel mirror my own belief (authors unknown):
"I suspect that the problem here is that many of us beta testers are either EQ players, or mmorpg players. obviously, otherwise why would we be here? problem is that, near as i can tell, this game is designed for those folks who both do not want to play EQ (why steal customers from your own product), and who don't really play mmorpgs at all. this game plays, for me, like the mmorpg for folks who always wanted to play one, but found it a little "too much", for whatever reason. the reason i'm feel this? because i am one of the aforementioned. i've played other mmorpgs, but they never really worked for me, they were always a little too much, too testing, too much effort. this game is on rails - simple as that, at least compared to any other mmorpg i've ever played. and that's why it works for me. i'll be buying this, sadly for exactly the reasons everyone else in this thread may not be. to be honest, i'd prefer it the other way around, not for the sake of SOE, but for the sake of all the other dedicated "real" players out there who are clearly more willing to put their heart in than i am.
it's a great shame for players with a heart and a passion, but this is an mmorpg without either. for that reason i'm able to enjoy it on my own (shallow) terms, but i fully sympathise with those that find it falls far short of their more passionate standards."
***********
"Here, here.
I think the original poster has more playing exp in EQ2 than some of the designers. And with my limited exp playing this game, I wholeheartedly agree. EQ2 is a step backwards in design. In fact, I think it a slam to its namesake. I really hope the team gets it together and stops worrying about the bottom line, release date, competition -- and starts focusing on the player's feedback, the mechanics, and overall feel of the game. Which imo, is lifeless."
**********
" This is almost EXACTLY what I have been saying ALL this time in so many posts. This is exactly what Everquest II is, a linear, do as your told, spoonfed rpg.
You really ARE in their world now. The worst part of that fact is you're also restricted to only doing exactly what THEY want done. I hate to have to ever say that WoW is looking better and better all the time...
/pray for Vanguard"
************
"Have to totally agree with Logrus. nice post. I have played many games going back to text based games such as Zork and Larn, The thing I find that captures people is the ability to make us NoT "Joe Average" we want to escape from reality for a moment and be more than just average.
We may only achieve average in one sense, but in games like EqLive we had the ability to jump in and be the hero for those with much less seasons.
I feel Im somewhere between powergamer and casual player, played EqLive since pre-kunark and played about 30 hours a week. with multiple level 65 toons. I found myself very engrossed into EqLive up till the release of PoP which I felt was added content for "uber guild members"
I know many people have quit EqLive because after many years it became a game for those in uber guilds who could comit 5-7 days a week - 6+ hrs. for the rest of us the content became boring, weeks grinding AA, killing the same mob over and over again gets very boring. I was really looking forward to the release of Eq2, many great concepts, beautiful graphics, and what seemed to be a solid foundation for a long lasting game.
I think Eq2 could still be that great game, but if it gets released next month it will be a long term disaster, and a lot of hard work by the Dev team will be have been spent in vain. Not to meantion the corporate officers will not see the "cash cow" that Eq2 can be by holding off and letting the Dev team work with some of the serious issues at hand. The Dev team has been working very hard and I'm impressed what they have done since I joined beta. Please listen to the Beta Testers, let corporate management know if they want to see good return on this investment they need to let the team finish the job before release.
Beta 1
20 enchanter 17 warrior 11 rogue 7 priest"
***********
"lol i just skiped all the way ot the end did not read 7 pages worth
first of all i agree with Logrus on this this coming from an EQ veteran.
lack of choice is what realy irks me..
1) no more uncertainty when pulling, they realy made it idiot proof.
2) subclass distinctions should be more obvious then this else do without it.
3) players are being told how to play so on and so forth
a) lvl restriction on zones
b) zones with a timer
c) lvl restrictions on items ( if am strong enough to defeat it i can use its loot. simple no brainerlogic)
what hapened to having the freedom, heck if am lvl 12 and stupid enough or couragious enough to survive the treck to visit feerot or what not i should be allowed to. instead i need to do a quest to get flaged to enter? btw that is the only reason i quit EQ all those time sinks.
someone mentioned it feels like we are being hand held and the game is REALY idiot proof, you CAN NOT mess.
i just need the element of the unknown back and this game will be awsome, it is already much better then any beta heck it is more solid then SWG in release.
just my 2 cents"
***************
"I already made my decision. I will NOT buy EverQuest 2.
The reasons are many. Developers and people in charge not being able to give a statement to a HUGE uproar in the community. I find it almost hilarious that the only statement we got was pointing out a bug we already were aware of.
Ive been SOE customer for too long to be satisfied with, excuse my language, halfassed excuses and promises anymore..SOE never holds a promise.
SOE has been sitting on the "Best MMORPG EVER" throne for tooooo long - I get the feeling they are getting lazy. Time to pass that throne on to one of the TRUE Next Generation MMOs that are coming.
To sum it up, in my eyes they have utterly failed in making an interesting game. They sure made a good kiddie game - but nothing for someone grown up enough to make their own decisions.
*puts on her fire-resist gear as she feels she will need it now*"
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"Eq1 allowed tactics to happen, eq2 has put in safeguards to keep people from taking any but the devs intended linear route to victory. Lemmie give you examples of tactics making a change in the way something is fought. You and a group enter a dungeon, there are about 30 mobs between you and the named mob your cleric needs to kill for a quest, but your warr has to go to sleep in 30 mins...is there anyway possible to get that named mob dead within 30 mins? in EQ1 there were always options if you were smart. There was always "more than one way to skin any cat" if you thought about it long enough. So in eq 1 you send the ranger training down the hall as a diversion, and have him pop a snare on the named you needed so it will trail far behind its brethren, and as the ranger and 30+ gnolls runs past, your group grabs the named, out of aggro range of the rest of them, and pulls it out down another corridor to kill it as the other mobs start walking back to their spawn locations after the ranger zones, mission accomplished, because of diversionary-tactics. In eq2 however, you would just pack up the group and go to bed, theres no way but the obvious way.
Tactics are about lots of choices, about there being more than one way to get at something, or beat something. EQ2 has the tactics blocked out of the combat so that 10% of the population dont get smart and learn shortcuts to the devs "intended numbers".
The HO wheel is a symptom of the problem, its not tactics, its tic tac toe for dummies. if the real game (combat) didnt suck, they wouldnt have to duct tape an idiotic minigame in in the corner of the combat game to distract you from its simplicity and the bordom it inspires. They might as well have "gems" start whenever you turn on auto-attack."
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"The HO wheel is anti-tactics, the HO wheel is a minigame that has nothing to do with the actual combat in EQ2. You may think that pressing "forward", "down", "downforward"+ "high punch" to make your fighter do a "ha-do-ken" is strategy, you might think that a group each pressing one of the buttons in slow succession to make one reall big "ha-doooooooo-ken" to blow the mobs up is some example of "smart group tactics", but its not, its pathetic arcade/console kiddie [arrow] they ripped off from that children's MMO FFXI.
1 orc? 3 orcs? 5 orcs? not the point, sure 3 is harder than 1 =P but how did you get 3? how did you get 1? were there 10 orcs in the camp and the monk brokedown the pull to 3? were there 3 mobs standing around the edge and one walked off away from the camp far enough for a paitent ranger to pick him off solo? nope, In EQ2 i can tell you exactly what happened, the "puller" hit the 3 group or the single solo mob with his stick and bought the predetermined number of mobs, set by a level designer 3 months ago, back to camp to be gang-raped, just like every other braindead player thats ever been near that camp.
EQ1 could be dumb and pointless sometimes, but it depended on who you were playing with.The dumbness wasnt pre-programmed into the game for everyone to "enjoy'. Not everyone lived in bastion of thunder 24/7. You could change the way an encounter was gonna be with your brain, not with kiddie streetfighter combos.
The designers overdoing the micromanagment is also one of the reasons classes are so stupid and cookie-cutter, cant give rangers a lull...mobs are pre grouped, cant give monks an FD that works for the same reason, better nerf snare so people cant kite, we know how bad that would be =P. So rangers have 5 different ways to wack the mob with their stick, same with warrs, clerics change it up with a heal button, and mages get to punch a mob from far away and everyone gets a buff =P.
anyone remember what happened when there'd be 4 hours without a single 50+ cleric logging on in EQ1, people would get creative and try something different like aggro kiting stuff, sometimes the [arrow] would work sometimes theyd die, but they were thinking outside of the box, because that was allowed in eq1. Here that type of stuff is gone, pre-chewed group, pre-chewed fights, pre-chewed classes, all pre-chewed food, no flavor."
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Myrrdinn wrote:
Been playing EQ2 for a few weeks now, haven't been to one group that use skillful tactics.
Why? Is it that we lack a pool of skillful players?
No.
There is no room for tactics.
In classic EQ, plenty of room for tact. What happened? AI system.
In EQLive, there is no set amount of mobs artificially grouped together. Verant did a superb job of AI implemention.
Snakes don't help out each other when one of them gets attacked. Gnolls do, they are social animals. How many comes with your pull is dependent on several factors:
1. Scout. Do you know if the mob has another friend around the corner?
2. Skill. A skillful puller is as valuable to a guild/raid as the pilot of a fighter jet. Do we chain pull? Do we feign death?
AI was believable in EQLive. There was luring, there was picking-off-the-loners after the lure.
But EQ2 right now, you can attack a goblin who's standing next to another goblin with no consequence at all if he's tagged "solo". Or what's sad is attacking a goblin who's standing in the middle of a goblin camp, and half of the camp comes, not neccesarily the ones closest to your target. It is artificial, it's weak, it needs to be changed.
For those of us who want solo contents, please note that it's the the problem of the game lacking solo tagged "social" mobs. The problem is we don't have enough solo mobs to kill other than social mobs. I think group/solo tagging system should be replaced by a system that's up to par with the 6-year-old AI system in EQLive.
As it stands, the hardest part of grouping is to come up with a good mix of classes. After you put together the group, the task is the same, you pull, you tank whatever comes, and hope your priests don't run out of mana before the mob(s) run out of HP.
What's the tact in that? The only coordination needed seems to be Heroic Opportunities. EQ was bad enough that each character was valued by the equipments it possessed, but what seemed equally valued was the skill of the player controlling the character.
In EQ2, be ready to be judged solely on your equipment. As I do not really see where a skill of the player comes in. The game has no room for it.
Everquest II is a carebear game... I hate to say it, as much as I have at one point fallen in love with the concept of Everquest II, I know I'm going to play it for a couple of months, beat the game, then move on to a different mmo.
The zing that EQlive had is something I'm still looking for. Guess I have to wait for Vanguard. Don't get me wrong, EQII is a very well designed game, it's lots of fun and beautiful to look at and experience. I plan on purchasing and playing it, the thing is I don't see myself playing it any longer than I would a really good single player game, a few months then on the shelves ya go.
Just doesn't have enough choice factor and depth that EQlive had, nothing more really, nothing wrong or bad with that, just the way it is for me and I know for many others out there.
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Baaddare wrote:
Well i played eq from kunark to this past may. EQIi to me seems ot require more skil and more tactics than eqlive ever did. Again instead fo sya 1 blue coen there might be 3 greens here instead which requires more thought in how to attack them. Groups have to work togeather more> Frist thre is the wheel which requires not only patiance to use but the knowledge of which HO to use and when it let it go off. Second with each classes skils complimenting each others teamwork is required to maximize their use. As for the idea of a EQ and EQII type server. Again this is not eq it is not suppose to be eq it is not aimed at pleasign peopel that love eq but the people that left eq or do not want to play eq.
Then you've only been playing with the newer tweaks and watered down expansions of EQlive. Being able to walk into a zone and have no problem single pulling blue cons that hit for 800 and have a million hit points and give tremendous rewards is something new to the game. There was 50 TIMES more challenge in the game pre PoP.
MOST players NEVER walked into Solusek A for example in their early 20's to late 30's for one sole reason, it was TOO hard and risky to fight in. Even during Velious time though it was one of the best sources of rare drops and experience for around that level range in the entire game. I used to get more reward from having a group of very competent friends sit in different camp areas in Sol A than most anyone else. I had a lot of friends and family members who played EQ (some who still do), who STILL wouldn't set foot in Sol A. As my uncle so plainly put it: "it's just too hard, there are easier ways to get far better experience at that level than fight mobs that run and train, shaman mobs, wizard mobs, mobs that require a skilled enchanter and puller.
See? Straight from a current source, it's EASIER now days to get experience in EASIER zones with higher rewards.
Verant's EQ was all about risk versus reward. SoE changed that motto down to reward without the risk.
It's still a very entertaining and fun game for a great deal many people, there is nothing wrong with making a game that isn't overly challenging, watering down a game and giving it an entirely new purpose did make me mad though. Well, that's why I don't play anymore anyway
One thing that TOTALLY stands out that you said though, let me quote you again: Again this is not eq it is not suppose to be eq it is not aimed at pleasign peopel that love eq but the people that left eq or do not want to play eq.
In my opinion if this was the truth of the number one purpose of Everquest II, they have failed miserably. Every single person I know who quit EQlive quit because they ruined it with newbie armor, free binds, free teleports, easy to acquire high end gear, overly powerful AA abilities, the bazaar, never ever having your corpse vanish on you with all your gear, characters under level 10 not having to get their corpse, the list is so large it hurts to remember.
Lets see the TRUTH about EQII here for a second. The goal of EQII is to continue to toss every aspect that made EQlive an initial success, everything Brad McQuaid did for EQ with his vision, keep all that thrown RIGHT out the window, add pretty graphics, remove single pulling, twinking, power leveling and zerging (at the expense of giving players ANY kind of choice), then resell the game."
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"=> "It went Everquest - Kunark - Velious - Luclin - Planes of Power - Who Cares - Who Cares - Who Cares?" <=
/snicker, pretty much.
I left for the same reasons you did Nardasia.
There seems to be an assumption on the part of the devs that most who left EQ1 did so because the game became "too complex".
Most folks of my acquaintance left because EQ1 became ridiculously easy, and mudflation was out of control.
BTW, people compare this game to Everquest1 for many reasons, here are two:
#1 its called EVERQUEST2 (although Diablo3 or CoH2 might be more apt)
#2 everyone compares everything to EQ1, it set a standard for the genre."
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So sift threw that... and decide if SEO is taking EQ2 in the direction that good for you.... [arrow] I wish Brad McQuaid never left...!! So in short, EQ2 is the most stale, uninspired, linear, dumb-downed huge time sink ever to wear the tag of MMORPG yet... I predict EQ2 will fail over time. At the beginning there will be enough care bears to support it but then when the reality of the boredom of the game kicks in, they will surely leave. And I hope it does fail, crap like this leads the MMORPG genre in the wrong direction. This game will NEVER have PvP. The game would have to be completely redesigned for any hint of working PvP. It is so convoluted in its sheer bluebiness mechanics PvP will never happen. EQ2 is dead before it even goes live...